Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-04T10:48:40+02:00

Gun upgrade on T1 ACU: -300 e
RAS upgrade on T1 ACU: -1000 e, but also -35 mass

Statistics: Posted by ax0lotl — 04 Jul 2014, 10:48

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T18:25:54+02:00

Vee wrote:
Yep you got it exactly right. One other thing is, I've heard people say that mex upgrades cost a lot of power, but it's not the case Mex upgrade is the least power costly thing you can build, at a ratio of 1:6. Making factories/pgens is ~1:10, making t1 air is 1:45. Also T2 land upgrade isn't very power hungry, it's also ~1:10, same as T1 factories.

mass:power ratio I assume?

i don't know, but most people think in absolute numbers...i don't know them, though.

Statistics: Posted by Hascins — 03 Jul 2014, 18:25

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T17:02:34+02:00

Yep you got it exactly right. One other thing is, I've heard people say that mex upgrades cost a lot of power, but it's not the case Mex upgrade is the least power costly thing you can build, at a ratio of 1:6. Making factories/pgens is ~1:10, making t1 air is 1:45. Also T2 land upgrade isn't very power hungry, it's also ~1:10, same as T1 factories.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 03 Jul 2014, 17:02

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T16:56:39+02:00

Yes, just take it to the extreme to understand it.

Lets attack the enemy base with tanks by..

Game1, building a factory in your base.
Game2, we build the fac in the enemy base.

In game 1 we have a long string of tanks traveling to the enemy base, lets say 10 tanks @ 50mass each, we have 500 mass on the field at all times just walking to the other base. Our enemy essentially is playing with 500 more mass used than we are.

In game 2 we don't have 500 mass walking around at a cost of the time it takes the engy to get to the forward position and build the factory. So we are playing with an equal effective mass.

This is why drops are powerful because we save time getting units to where they are used from where they are built.

...................

I think the most important number in the whole game is -30 power for an engy to make a t1pg, too many players panic and put 4 or 5 engies on power spam when they stall and then power stall far worse than if they just paused something and added one engy to power spam.

Numbers i like to know are.
to upgrade a t1 land fac to t2 fac is, -90power -10mass
to make a t2 powergen is, -68 power -6 mass
and to upgrade to a t2 mex is, -59 power -9 mass

Statistics: Posted by ZaZen — 03 Jul 2014, 16:56

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T16:48:49+02:00

Got it! Thx!

Statistics: Posted by Hascins — 03 Jul 2014, 16:48

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T16:32:46+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
Hascins wrote:
Vee wrote:Making factories more forward delays your tanks a little because engies walk slower than tanks, but it saves you mass you would otherwise invest in tanks that would have to travel that distance.

don't get it

dont worry me neither

I guess he means: engie is slower than tanks, so your early tanks will be faster if you build your factories 'less forward'. Obviously is less important once you get more tanks out of the factory. The thing about mass is probably something like this: If you build a tank you need to use it as fast as possible, because it will be worth less if you use it later (of course you must use it as cost-effective as possible). Travel time means it costs more to make your tanks move all the way up.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 03 Jul 2014, 16:32

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T16:53:30+02:00

Okay, I'll try to explain it in a different way. You have an engie in your base, and you want to make a factory. Either you make the factory in your base, or you walk forward with the engie, and make the factory forward. If you make the factory in your base, your tanks produced from that factory will arrive in your enemy's base a little earlier, since tanks move faster than engineers. However, if you make the factory forward, the engie will start building it later, and it will start producing tanks a little later, so you have some mass that you can invest in something else. However, since the point where your tanks are produced is forward, even though you have less tanks on the field it is not that bad since your tanks are in a better position. Does that make sense?

For example you have this on maps like Vya-3. You can either make your landspam in your base, or you make it at your 2 expansions. Same with desert planet and those kind of maps. Or on four leaf clover, you can decide how far forward you want to walk with your engies before you start factory spam. It's a trade off. Economic wise it's best to run your engie all the way into your enemy's base, and make factories there and spam him from within his base, but obviously that's not gonna work. So you have to make a decision how forward you want to place your factory.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 03 Jul 2014, 16:29

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T15:36:46+02:00

Hascins wrote:
Vee wrote:Making factories more forward delays your tanks a little because engies walk slower than tanks, but it saves you mass you would otherwise invest in tanks that would have to travel that distance.

don't get it

dont worry me neither

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 03 Jul 2014, 15:36

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T15:31:00+02:00

Vee wrote:
Making factories more forward delays your tanks a little because engies walk slower than tanks, but it saves you mass you would otherwise invest in tanks that would have to travel that distance.

don't get it

Statistics: Posted by Hascins — 03 Jul 2014, 15:31

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T14:44:26+02:00

T1,T2,T3 mex adjacency bonus = 7.5%, 10%, 12.5%. Mass storage bonus on mex = 12.5%. T2 mex surrounded by T2 facs =~ free T2 mex. T1 airfac surrounded by t1 pgens = 1 free t1 pgen. Airfac on hydro = 0.5 free t1 pgens. Airfac needs about 4 t1 pgens to run.

Switching around the order of a mex with a pgen in your BO gives you +24 mass, -120 power. So if you make 4 mex hydro, you get about 100 mass extra than pgen 4 mex hydro. Unless the hydro is far, you should not make pgens before hydro. Hydro costs less mass, less power, and less build time than 5 t1 pgens. For each T3 airfac adjacency on T3 pgen, you get 400 free power.

T2 pgens are about 50% more efficient than T1, T3 pgens are about double as efficient as T2.

ACU death nuke = 2500.

RAS =~ free T3 mex.

Reclaim isn't as important as you think it is, it is usually better to get your mexes first, than put the engineer on reclaim (except on maps like daroza). Reclaiming single trees isn't really worth it, but reclaiming tree groups is.

Making factories more forward delays your tanks a little because engies walk slower than tanks, but it saves you mass you would otherwise invest in tanks that would have to travel that distance.

For every 2 engies on factory spam, you need 1 engie on powerspam.

Most important number of all: these numbers can give you a 5% advantage at most. Focus on other things ^^

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 03 Jul 2014, 14:44

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T14:11:05+02:00

1 t1 fac = ~4 t1 tanks = ~1 (cheap) t2 tank/bot
1 t1 pgn = ~ 1.5 t1 tanks
delaying an expansion of 4 mexies for just 30 seconds = 4*30*2 (=240) mass less produced for your opponent = 4-5 t1 tanks

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 03 Jul 2014, 14:11

Re: Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T13:49:46+02:00

hydro is 100

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 03 Jul 2014, 13:49

Usefull numbers

2014-07-03T13:53:29+02:00

I'm interested which numbers you keep in mind for playing. Which numbers do you think are crucial to know and necessary to memorize? And how do you memorize them...do you put it into comparisons like "for x you could build 5 y"?

For me it is (and im going to put some more over here - please correct me if im wrong with the numbers!!):

Maintenance of buildings:

- You need about 3mex and 2pgen to keep 2 t1landfacs running (with mex adjacency)
- Radar running: -20e

Maintenance of units:

- Shield drain etc?

Building units:
- t1 Engy building pgen: -30e

Income Eco
- t1 mex income: +2m
- t2 mex income: +6m
- t1 pgen income: +20e
- Hydro income: +100e

EDIT: Changed Hydro from -150e-->-100e

Statistics: Posted by Hascins — 03 Jul 2014, 10:39