Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Math help

2014-12-12T22:26:00+02:00

speed2 wrote:
I think nothing about nuke cost was changed, so it should be like this http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Cybran_T3_Strategic_Missile_Submarine

it says there that nuke sub drains -4200 while making nuke missile wich is already little wrong
but i could trust mass cost

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 12 Dec 2014, 22:26

Re: Math help

2014-12-09T17:39:02+02:00

I see. So it's basically a comparison of how much it costs to build a certain amount of build power.

Damn that's obvious now.

Statistics: Posted by Neutrino — 09 Dec 2014, 17:39

Re: Math help

2014-12-09T17:22:47+02:00

I think nothing about nuke cost was changed, so it should be like this http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Cybran_T3_Strategic_Missile_Submarine

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 09 Dec 2014, 17:22

Re: Math help

2014-12-09T16:54:56+02:00

Neutrino wrote:
This page here http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Build_rate describes how production units have a different "Mass cost per unit of build rate". What does that mean, does that have something to do with build efficiency and if so how does that work?

"Mass cost per unit of build rate" = cost divided by build power

"unit of build rate" - engyneers and other units that can build or assist

t1 engy has 5 build power and 52 mass cost
5/52 = 0.096154
t2 - 0.089286
Sparky - 0.7 / 9 (or 0.0777777777777~)

Nuke def - 0.144 - you get 1080 build power for 7500 mass, it is like if your t1 engyes would cost 34.7222222222 mass instead of 52
that means that it is probably more efficient to add one more nuke def than make more t1 engineers only on purpose to assist nuke defence

but usually t1 engyneers are most efficient and usage of them only limited by rolloff time, space, lag and unit cap

aeon/sera t3 engyes are pretty efficient as well

i would like to calculate that for every unit but i have no time for that

talking about database i would like to see missile costs added, cause i dunno how much nuke sub missile costs
(14400 mass? )

Edit: i was dividing build time by mass, you can do opposite like they did on that site... i guess that is even better and no 0.062983746298347639 numbers D:

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 09 Dec 2014, 16:54

Re: Math help

2014-12-09T15:52:59+02:00

I think I've undestood everything described so far but I have a furter related question.

To sumarise what's already been covered. The amount of time taken to build something is buildtime/buildpower.

Given:
A Striker has a buildtime of 280, and a resource cost of 56 mass and 266 energy.
A T1 Land Factory has a buildrate of 20.

Therefore:
It will take 14 seconds to build the tank.

Premise: ?
The resource cost per second of building the tank will be
4 mass/second (56/14)
19 energy/second (266/14)

If that's all there was to it then that would be perfectly straightforward and understandable but I've read a few things that have suggested that different production units have differing efficiencies but I haven't seen anything that explains how that works. This page here http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Build_rate describes how production units have a different "Mass cost per unit of build rate". What does that mean, does that have something to do with build efficiency and if so how does that work?

Statistics: Posted by Neutrino — 09 Dec 2014, 15:52

Re: Math help

2014-04-24T14:48:33+02:00

Hi, just a little precision, the unit DB is a little confusing because it gives a value called "build time", but the build time is not actually a measure of time, so the BTU (Build Time Unit) is not equivalent to the second. The BTU can be defined as an arbitrary unit used to express how easy or difficult it is to build something, and buildpower (or build rate) is expressed in BTU per second.

For the strain in eco, for each unit you can calculate the mass per BTU and energy per BTU (simply divide the mass cost and energy cost by the build time). And you get the drain by multiplying thoses values by the cumulated buildpower of all the engineering unit working on it.

Statistics: Posted by Paul Kauphart — 24 Apr 2014, 14:48

Re: Math help

2014-03-31T21:13:43+02:00

So it's just rounded down... all right.
Thank you.

Statistics: Posted by Zsombi — 31 Mar 2014, 21:13

Re: Math help

2014-03-31T20:56:55+02:00

it matches up perfectly. http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.php?bp=URL0001,URB5101
buildpower: 10
buildtime: 10
10/10 = one second to build

for engineer the buildpower is 5 and not 10,
so it takes 2 seconds instead of one to build a wall. (10/5 = 2)

i'm not sure why you don't understand, its not exactly hard

also 125/10 = 12.5 which for some reason was rounded down to 12 seconds, so it still works.

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 31 Mar 2014, 20:56

Re: Math help

2014-03-31T20:39:38+02:00

Okay, I understand..all but the time.

But if i look at a base ACU building a wall and a T1 pgen the build time unit and the seconds shown in game don't quite match up.

Is 1 second 10 buildtime units and 0,1 seconds 1 build time unit or not?

The build time unit of a Wall is 10, but in the game it is shown as 1 second for a base ACU.

The build time unit of a T1 Power Generator is 125, but in the game it is shown as 12 seconds for a base ACU.

So, apparently not. Then, how does this work?

Statistics: Posted by Zsombi — 31 Mar 2014, 20:39

Re: Math help

2014-03-31T20:01:42+02:00

everything can be worked out if you know the build time (in units) and the buildpower.

the time to build something is:

buildtime/buildpower

for example: 1 aa has 140 buildtime, one factory has 20 bp. this means that it takes 7 seconds to build it.
or 3.5 if you have 4 t1 engineers assisting (20+5+5+5+5 = 40)
this makes it easy to work everything else out if you know the total buildpower used on the project (add up all the engineers, factories, acus, ect.)

mass per second is simply mass/(buildtime/buildpower)
or: mass/(timetobuild)

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.php?bp=URL0105,URB0101,URL0104

heres a link with build times and build rates

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 31 Mar 2014, 20:01

Math help

2014-03-31T19:55:05+02:00

Looking at the unit database and at a game..

In the database you can see: the total mass and energy costs and ingame build time units.
During a game you can see: the total mass and energy costs, the mass and energy cost rates and the build times in minutes and/or seconds.

What formula could I use to get these:
a.) the ingame build time units to seconds
> 1 build time unit = ? seconds
> ? build time unit = 1 seconds

b.) only with information from the unit database, the mass and energy cost rates
(the one that ingame is shown in parentheses after the total resource cost)

c.) only with information from the unit database, a project's build time when an entity with a build rate is working on it
(ingame that is the "ETA")

d.) the total resource drain per second of an ongoing project
>with one or more same type entities with build rate (e.g.: one or more T2 Engineers)
>> total mass drain
>> total energy drain

>with one or more different types of entities with build rate (e.g.: one or more: T1 Engineers, T1 Engineers, AeonT3 Engineers, Cybran T3 engineers and Cybran T1 Mantises all together)
>> total mass drain
>> total energy drain

I have tried do find these out myself, but I got stuck at the time unit to seconds conversion.

Statistics: Posted by Zsombi — 31 Mar 2014, 19:55