Forged Alliance Forever

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2013-01-15T19:19:14+02:00

Thanks for that useful thread!
As a beginner it's really helpful to get some more opinions.

I started playing at GPGnet and played just randomly.
Now on FAF I prefer Seraphim in 1on1.

Statistics: Posted by CoreKrogoth — 15 Jan 2013, 19:19

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2013-01-04T10:48:41+02:00

Just try making plenty of engineers. Build power is very important. Have them assist a t2 factory and you can pick engineers off to rebuild mex or reclaim as necessary.

It's not perfect but to avoid needing to micro it too much you can get your first land factory repeat building 2 engys with say 4 tanks after your opening build order. This gives you a decent supply of engys as you need them and some spare tanks in your base to redirect as needed or deal with raiders that have got past other units. Using an attack move out of the factory also gives a small micro advantage for automating tank aggression and engineer reclaiming.

Statistics: Posted by ZaphodX — 04 Jan 2013, 10:48

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2013-01-04T10:08:23+02:00

Going back to the original question of the topic...

How do you guys manage your workers?
I never seem to have a worker available when I need one. In SC2 you have mineral lines all over the map and you simply pick some workers from there.

I've been trying making a builder control group, but that is a bit annoying if it gets wiped out, right now I'm always letting a bunch of workers assist a factory (T1 if there is no T2 or T3) - so I have a worker line to pull workers from.

How do you guys manage it?

and PS.
Aeon works quite nicely - I get a lot of result from kiting.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 04 Jan 2013, 10:08

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2013-01-03T13:44:04+02:00

@vnucik
In general PD is only viable when dealing with or preventing an immediate threat. Otherwise you are heavily investing in a resource-expensive and static defense that only begins to pay itself off once it gets some kills.

Even if it isn't mathematically efficient I find PD creeps can be effective in conjunction with units and are often effective in low to mid level play.

@Valki
As mentioned Aeon is a nice choice if you can handle the frequent kiting. I would however recommend all factions as they all have their advantages and can be played to suit your style and find your own niche playstyle.

I would also recommend trying out the Nomads from the nomad mod as they have a lot of new units that rely on tactical usage and placement.

Statistics: Posted by ZaphodX — 03 Jan 2013, 13:44

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2013-01-03T12:56:13+02:00

well im pretty new but i would like to discuss pd creep,, i dont pd creep often but i think that building some 2 T1 Pds or even a small firebase with like (aeon) 3 T1 pd + 2 T2 pd +(wall+ tmd) is sometimes viable at chokepoint, because: it often prevents the enemy from rushing his army and he is instead forced to efficiently counter it or make a turnaround with his army and go around....it can be usefull in situations where i want to buy time to some front or force the enemy to go around my defense where im prepared for the attack...also when im retreating and the enemy is chasing me the best solution i found is to build some Pd to temporarily stop him to let me recover...so i think that building pds has more psychological aspect than mass-efficient....it often force the enemy to do something which i may want

Statistics: Posted by vnucik — 03 Jan 2013, 12:56

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-29T15:13:58+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
try to OC a shield

Mobile shields are OC'd in one hit. And cost mass to build and energy to run. If he has a shield, you should have even more units to counter it with.

If he has the economy to support stationary shields, and the time to build them on the front lines, you have already lost the game and your opponent could have used literally any other tactic to finish you off with.

ColonelSheppard wrote:
especially for low/medium players and obviously even viable in high skill games, now dont give some mathematical theories, im to lazy to read it anyway, just look a few of Zock's replays on Fields of Thunder or Vale of isis, thats where i saw it

Even players like Zock cannot bend the physics of the game to miraculously make inefficient strategies mathematically viable.

I don't doubt that you saw him using a PD creep successfully. Nor do I doubt that PD creep can be an effective tactic in the proper situation.

What I do know for certain is that the PD creep can be countered at an extremely efficient rate, as both math and experience show.

Show me a replay of a successful PD creep. I will guarantee you that:

1) The PD creep-er already had a sizable advantage.
2) And/or the victim did not properly counter it.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 29 Dec 2012, 15:13

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-29T13:29:09+02:00

try to OC a shield, PD creep is viable, especially for low/medium players and obviously even viable in high skill games, now dont give some mathematical theories, im to lazy to read it anyway, just look a few of Zock's replays on Fields of Thunder or Vale of isis, thats where i saw it

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 29 Dec 2012, 13:29

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-29T05:22:40+02:00

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.php?bp=UEB2301
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.php?bp=UEL0103

For every T2 PD, you should have 15 artillery, which will kill the PD almost instantly with only 2-3 losses. Perhaps more if you don't bother to group your artillery in an intelligent fashion, but so long as they're in a roughly blob-like shape instead of single-file they will easily kill the PD.

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.php?bp=UEL0111

Alternatively, for every T2 PD, you should have 2+ MMLs, which will kill the PD in about 20 seconds with zero losses.

Alternatively, you can grab your ACU and OC it three times in a row, killing the PD at a cost of ~2k HP if you don't make any attempt to dodge. (in before comment about undodgeable sera/cybran PD - if you can't counter a PD creep from them, you really should re-evaluate what you are doing with your life...)

If you let them turtle so hard that they have TMD, T1 PD, units, and who knows what else to counter all of the above counters - you have already lost the game. It is, quite simply, mathematically impossible to cost-efficiently PD creep as its counters are incredibly efficient. If you find that you cannot stop a PD creep, then you are losing, badly, and the other player can use absolutely whatever they feel like to slaughter you. Which might include a PD creep.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 29 Dec 2012, 05:22

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-28T13:21:43+02:00

Depends where you pd creep.

If you're pd creeping in the middle of the map trying to capture a single mex point then yes its counterable easily.

If your pd creeping into someones base they do have to defend against it, unless of course you have spread all your buildpower and eco across the whole map. (which is an unlikely scenario)

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 28 Dec 2012, 13:21

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-28T10:21:29+02:00

uberge3k wrote:
I do not like proxy bases
'Attack of the Bases' is not my thing

In 1v1s, it's generally impossible to efficiently PD creep as there are simply too many cost-efficient counters to it. Smash them with mobile artillery, TML or MMLs.

the only thing i disagree
---> PD creep is always viable, esspeciallly if you are not playing in the 2k +rating range and even there: i've seen man replays of Zock with PD creeping

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 28 Dec 2012, 10:21

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-27T20:34:34+02:00

Thank you for a very thorough perspective.

You make Aeon sound quite good, and it already was my second choice.
In some games I played I was hating the fact that unit micro had less effect on the battle than I had hoped. I'll be trying Aeon against humans.

What I didn't like about Aeon was that they do not have a T2 bomber. I really like the UEF T2 fighter/bomber, they always seem to hit and burn all targets I want to hit and they seem to do well enough against air units.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 27 Dec 2012, 20:34

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-27T17:57:32+02:00

Welcome to the game.

Coming from a SC2 background, you should have an advantage by being much better prepared for unit micro. Most players here are quite allergic to the concept.

With this in mind, I would strongly recommend Aeon. While you should definitely play all of the factions a decent amount to better understand their strengths and weaknesses, many of Aeon's units are simply impossible to mass-efficiently counter when they are properly controlled. I'll do my best to share my knowledge of the game regarding the specifics you mentioned:

I like early agression.
UEF T1 looks appealing, but so do Mantis

UEF has a very solid all-around land force, with their only deficiency being a lack of hover units at T1, and no hovering shields are flak at T2. Their T1 tank, the Striker, is perhaps the quintessential tank - no real strengths or weaknesses. Their T1 mobile artillery fires a bursty, very high damage projectile that is relatively slow. However, their Light Assault Bot is easily the best of the three that have one, and scales well with micro.

Aeon has the best land force at T1, without question, due to the way their tanks work. The Aurora has less HP than other tanks, but more range and far more maneuverability. Try out it's micro in sandbox and get used to how it's controlled; at a high level, you simply move back when the enemy advances, and forward when the enemy retreats. If you get in range of other tanks, quickly move side to side to dodge projectiles.

Cybran's land is rather weak at all levels; every other faction simply has something better. The mantis' biggest advantage is that they are harder to outmicro due to their higher ROF, but this is very rarely an advantage since most players simply do not bother with unit control at this level.

Seraphim is very strong, but their advantage relies more in the fact that their units require very little control and instead force others to micro. They have no LAB at T1; their tank is similar to UEF's but is more frontloaded, and their artillery is the best of all with very high damage and the ability to hover.

I like a strong airforce (not necessarily early-game)

Each faction's air is roughly equal, with again the exception of Aeon's. Aeon is the only faction to have T2 interceptors, which, with micro, cannot be mass-effectively countered until T3. Combined with being one of the only two factions that have two levels of RAS upgrades on the ACU (the other being Seraphim), it's easy to see why Aeon is generally the faction of choice for air players.

I like drops

If drops are a favorite tactic, I would recommend Seraphim for their artillery, and because their transports have more slots for units than other factions'. UEF and Aeon arty are both decent, while Cybran's is fairly weak; it's inaccuracy makes it a poor choice for taking on structures, combined with its cost.

I like a mobile style of play

This is one constant among every faction - map control is far more efficient than turtling, so every faction is forced to play offensively and move quickly.

I do not like proxy bases
'Attack of the Bases' is not my thing

In 1v1s, it's generally impossible to efficiently PD creep as there are simply too many cost-efficient counters to it. Smash them with mobile artillery, TML or MMLs.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 27 Dec 2012, 17:57

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-23T12:17:11+02:00

Thanks for the advice, I'm trying those specific advantages out

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 23 Dec 2012, 12:17

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-20T22:41:46+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
Sera is maybe the best allrounder (some say it would be silightly better overall) biggest contra is maybe that you do not have the option of getthogunship and labrush in the early game

Which means sheppard is helpless

Also welcome to FA

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 20 Dec 2012, 22:41

Re: What faction to choose, SC2 player

2012-12-20T22:21:36+02:00

most players claim that UEF and sera are the easiest factions to play, there isn't much difference between them except that sera has a hoveriing arty

Cybran's biggest pro on tec1 is the Jestergunship
Aeon have high range tanks but with paper hp (kiting, micro intensive)
UEF maybe has a problematic t4 lategame on watermaps in my opinion but it's only weakness in previous tech levels are stengths of the other factions
Sera is maybe the best allrounder (some say it would be silightly better overall) biggest contra is maybe that you do not have the option of getthogunship and labrush in the early game

i can only suggest you this:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1614 (just PM one in the Lobby)
and this
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2089
if you want to come into the game more fast (again?)

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 20 Dec 2012, 22:21