Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-12-12T20:34:51+02:00

Would the switch be more viable as uef when u can make battlecruisers, even though they're more expensive?

Statistics: Posted by L0rdOfSzin — 12 Dec 2012, 20:34

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-12-11T11:26:08+02:00

short answer: yes

long answer : Depends on game situation. When u are in a heavy fight u might need
those constant reinforcements to keep the battle even.
In general going for higher tier units is a good thing go do.

Statistics: Posted by laPPen — 11 Dec 2012, 11:26

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-12-08T22:35:35+02:00

When you're rock and in a naval stalemate is it a good idea to get battleships?

Ok, say your enemy had exactly the same eco as you and he was cybran and you were cybran. Same # of units on the ocean. Would it be cost effective/effective in general to stop building a mix and push out destroyers and cruisers, then focus on building battleships as fast as possible while your opponent is still building a standard mix? Leave out t3 torp bombers from this.

Statistics: Posted by L0rdOfSzin — 08 Dec 2012, 22:35

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-21T12:02:37+02:00

The idea is to give a certain idea of how to start a Seton's Rock Spot game. Though i saw i guess androoo [1785] with a different build with using pure intel to get the least navy possible to fend of waves and build a huge economy with the rock spot advantage. Also making a t3 sonar is super usefull and very costeffective vs UEF etc. Little bit less against cybran with their counter intelligence boats

Statistics: Posted by Emptyless — 21 Sep 2012, 12:02

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-20T18:17:08+02:00

I used to neglect it for years, now I am truly convinced it's a mistake to not use it, unless the mid is really in your favor in terms of mass.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 20 Sep 2012, 18:17

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-20T16:46:33+02:00

Your right V but this thread is about the build order. I wanted to show how you can use the hydro in the early game.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 20 Sep 2012, 16:46

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-20T16:22:18+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
Ok finaly i played a setons.

OK that doesn't count.

1 ) You play versus Rambo on BEACH, a spot where he's average. And yourself can play against a good amount of good seton junkies.

Seriously he didn't even build a *T1* radar, not one. He didn't see your initial drop and facs building (epic lol), and when his navy is under heavy pressure,, he goes for , wait for it .... t2 naval ... Come on I stopped the replay there cause it was seriously too ridiculous.

2 ) Your whole team seemed to be at advantage overall, so you had no real risk of counterstrike.

3 ) You mid player was way better and brought you way more mass (9000+) than the other team ever got. This mass boost allows to invest into some extras when you already have 5 extra mexes

Now do the same thing on a good beach player, when teams are a bit more balanced.

I've been watching a lot of TA4Life's replays on youtube. In the seton's games, the rock and beach players are almost always cybran. Why is this?

Depends on the year of the game (old -> 3599 -> cybran navy powerfull ; months ago 360x -> cybran weak). Now that the balance changed again, cybran navy became competitive again against the others.

Plus cybran fight are more interesting on navy, and we know how TA hates eco whoring, but prefers never endless action

1 producing subs, 1 producing frigates and 1 producing t2 subkillers + 1 counter intelligence boat. I think t2 subkillers are the strongest t2 naval ships for sea dominance and they arent that hard to micro as well

Erf. Mistake or just wrong idea ?
They are not mass efficient at all, except in a few specific circumstances. You're better off with a destro than 2 t2 subs (close costs). The only navy in trouble would be the uef if the guy doesn't have any torp boat, and when he does, the t2 sub loses cost wise. On top of that, it's super easy to defend against t2 subs with only t1 torp launchers

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 20 Sep 2012, 16:22

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-19T07:19:19+02:00

I think in both the lower tiers as well as in the later tiers as a rock spot spot player the Cybran is a very good choice for early aggresion. the cybran can follow dim14's build and make 3 naval factories on rock spot's beach. 1 producing subs, 1 producing frigates and 1 producing t2 subkillers + 1 counter intelligence boat. I think t2 subkillers are the strongest t2 naval ships for sea dominance and they arent that hard to micro as well. Just like asf you have to keep them grouped up. Then after you've won your sea go for a couple of cruisers for aa (they dont have tactical missiles as the UEF has) and make a few battleships to destroy coast

Statistics: Posted by Emptyless — 19 Sep 2012, 07:19

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-19T04:00:18+02:00

I've been watching a lot of TA4Life's replays on youtube. In the seton's games, the rock and beach players are almost always cybran. Why is this?

P.S. Since following this build I have yet to lose a naval fight when playing rock after 10+ games. I still lost some of the games for various reasons, especially because I still struggle in the late game, but at least I never lose my ocean!!

Statistics: Posted by KillerOfMen — 19 Sep 2012, 04:00

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-15T19:24:29+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
Ok finaly i played a setons.

nice replay!! really helped me harassing in early game. Now the only thing i need to do is learn2push the lead you have instead of waste it.

Statistics: Posted by Emptyless — 15 Sep 2012, 19:24

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-15T14:39:44+02:00

Ok finaly i played a setons.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 15 Sep 2012, 14:39

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-14T16:57:45+02:00

My playing name is Emptyless ofc don't know if clantag ITF is in it though but if you look for emptyless you will find it

I think that although the early game is really nice you will still have to be worried most on reactionary and multitasking play. I think with the UEF i always try to lure the fight to my base. Barely survive with the least amount of units so you will have really fast t2 mexes and then strike hard with a t2 force.

Statistics: Posted by Emptyless — 14 Sep 2012, 16:57

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-14T12:42:33+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
I have a BO to kill the opponent in under 10 min. You can attack with air, drops and t1 navy. After that rush on t2 navy and finish him. The problem is, this works only when your alone with your opponent. But as all players go heavy eco they have realy nothing on the start of a setons game.

Show ?

mex before factory is 100% for style

Not really. If you wanna go eco, it helps you get a t2 mex faster, a few seconds but from experience it can matter for the eco whoring

[quote]I think it is not good to ignore the hydro. My first two engeniers are going to it after they build 1 or 2 mex.
And the acu don't need to build a mex when you are using the stones. So you can have a transporter in under 3min. It's very important to capture the island as fast as you can./quote]
I agree with the hydro part unless you wanna go super fast island. In that case you're better off with the pgens around the facs. There's really no ideal build for this position. It really depends on what you wanna do and your opponentS. I use plural cause it depends on :

- the beach opponent , if he's likely (and good) to try and steal the island. Some rock layers go for island around 5 min, yet they are VERY good

- the middle players : if you know you're gonna have a much better mass boost from your beach opponent, you're much better off delaying your island taking to invest into more early eco, much better ! In the meantime, considering the cheap cost of a bomber, you can still deny your beach opponent the island.

I completely disagree on it's very important to capture the island as fast as you can. I LOVE to play against mega island rush (the one TA posted already on Youtube). I usually don't even bother to stop him. It's very simple to counter such an costly investment (because of it begin super early) in terms of eco. You just need to relax and think of the investment for such an attempt. Then you realize you're way fine. To hold off a island long enough so that the INVESTMENT (cost + time , early game + delay in your own production) and the costs to defend it , is pretty hard any good player. I've only seen a handful of players capable of that.

I still think Dim14 was the best seton's player overall, but his builds got upgraded to improved versions. I saw better builds from scratch from other players not based from his builds. What made him really strong was his ability to have a clear picture of the game and what needs to be done and when. not his builds, although his are ofc a good start for beginners.

Btw Emptyless, what's your playing name ?

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 14 Sep 2012, 12:42

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-14T08:24:36+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
I will play a setons as soon as possible.

Thank you

I thing i noticed i should have added is the lack of teamspeak usage. While i think that players who are playing this know far more about there pc than regular sc2 players. I think we should really promote teamspeak usage as it gives such a nice style of play and it makes it so much more fun playing as a team.

Statistics: Posted by Emptyless — 14 Sep 2012, 08:24

Re: Seton's Clutch - Rock Spot

2012-09-13T23:31:46+02:00

I will play a setons as soon as possible.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 13 Sep 2012, 23:31