Forged Alliance Forever

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-27T11:31:22+02:00

Regarding drops, drop Zhtuues on enemy naval production. Always. T1 transport filled with Zthuues is worth like 2 Frigates in mass but the devastation they do in enemy production lines is outstanding.

Same goes for T1 bombers in the T2 and Janus/Corsair in the T3 phase when the enemy has a heavily assisted factory. A single bomber can eradicate most of the enemy buildpower in a few passes when targeting the assisting engineers. This can easily give you a decisive lead in ships which you can exploit.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 27 Nov 2017, 11:31

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-27T05:42:58+02:00

While I am not exactly the best player here are a few points I think were over-looked. These really apply to all kinds if engagements but I think they are worth mentioning anyway.

Intel is important
Obviously this means scouting but also T3 sonar, which is relatively inexpensive and can also be used to support your navy in other ways (particualarly cybran as it provides a rather large stealth field)

It's expensive
Boats are very resource intensive this means a few things.
1. You want an economy that reflects what you're building, don't forget to eco
2. Don't throw your ships away otherwise that is a lot of mass down the drain
3. Reclaim
Turning the aftermath of a fight into more navy is critical. Many naval fights have been lost when someone tried to push their opponent out of navy only to run out of steam just after destroying their naval infrastructure leaving behind not only the infrastructure reclaim but an entire armada's worth of reclaim allowing the defender to rebuild stronger than ever, however the reclaim in the middle of the ocean is just as important. Having a transport handy to drop engineers and should it come to it SACUs is very important.

Don't play navy.
While islands and lot of water might encourage a naval focus you shouldn't build exclusively navy.
Bombers and gunships can be very dangerous to a navy not equipped to deal with them and having air will also force your opponent to build things to counter it.
Drops can also harm the economy of your opposition and might be viable in situations where your navy cannot reach or your navy cannot get to without engaging the enemy navy without significant risk.
Finally as JoonasTo mentioned Seraphim T3 mobile hover-shields provide a nice buffer for seraphim navy, the same can be said of Aeon T2 mobile hover shields which comes with the added benefit of being accessed while only investing in T2 land. Aeon/Seraphim Mobile Hover Flak can also make a nice addition in a pinch.

Statistics: Posted by moonbearonmeth — 27 Nov 2017, 05:42

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-25T11:22:36+02:00

PhilipJFry wrote:
JoonasTo wrote:
Sera Bships can build nukes but those are more expensive than other nukes (50% higher cost)

the fug, seriously?, since when?

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=9505#p94913 2 years at least i assume it has always been that way - 50% was what i had in the back of my head, but it looks like it's not quite that much

That's still over one third more expensive, something like 36%, that's a lot. It's 7 minutes instead of five for everything else. That's good to know because it defines the end of the game after a seraphim naval victory in setons, for example.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 25 Nov 2017, 11:22

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-24T09:27:30+02:00

JoonasTo wrote:
Sera Bships can build nukes but those are more expensive than other nukes (50% higher cost)

the fug, seriously?, since when?

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=9505#p94913 2 years at least i assume it has always been that way - 50% was what i had in the back of my head, but it looks like it's not quite that much

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 24 Nov 2017, 09:27

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-24T01:36:21+02:00

Mmh interesting, thanks a lot for all these navy info (will need to reread multiple times to remember all of it but that's great, I love it)

EDIT : Ohhh, in fact t2 destroyers vs T3 subs mass to mass equivalent (so no evade from t3 subs just straight fight), destroyers win, but... t3 subs have higher range with torpedo (65 vs 45) so in fact t3 subs in the end is stronger if you micro them to stay out of range of destroyers as much as possible...

Statistics: Posted by surtsan — 24 Nov 2017, 01:36

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-24T01:31:27+02:00

Code:: Fixed the Cybran ACU needing to get into Gun range to attack a specific target with its torpedo upgrade Fixed the Cybran ACU not stopping at max range in attack move when firing torpedo

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/blob/de ... 0-upcoming

so it should be easier to use it soon

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 24 Nov 2017, 01:31

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-24T01:26:20+02:00

Cybran torp com loses to 2 destroyers 3 coopers or to a handful of torpedo bombers.
Always get stealth with it and be very careful that you don't over-extend as retreating is impossible with that speed.

If you're getting rushed at your naval yards, hide your engineers and torp launchers behind your factories. The factories will tank for them. T2 pd at beach also defends versus frigates.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 24 Nov 2017, 01:26

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-24T01:33:42+02:00

Yay, thanks for these info !

EDIT :

forgot to say that destroyers cyb can go on land and it can be really destructive depending on the map.
The com torpedo cybran is nice to have too (unless it has been nerfed or something?)
If you're really behind on navy the best bet I guess is to spam t2 torpedo and kill cruisers then rest of navy.

was testing in sand box :
2 cyb/aeon torpedo vs 1 cyb destroyer (2200 vs 2250 mass) : destroyer win
uef torpedo t2 is really bad (it can be hit by direct fire so the destroyer just eats them with direct fire)
no t2 sera sub
1 t3 sub sera vs 1 destroyer (3000 mass vs 2250) : sub sera win

>2 sub sera t3 vs 3 destroyers cyb ( 6000 mass vs 6750 mass) :
depends on micro, first time I let them fight (the subs win with 0 casuality and with 1k/4k and 2k/4k life left)
if 'perfectly microed' (2 sub focus same destroyer and destroy one at a time and the 3 destroyers focus 1 sub at a time) : destroyer won with 1 casuality and 2 destroyer at 5k/6k&full life

===
Against a firebase against navy (for example arty t2 + shields), with your destroyers you have to dodge the shots and focus FIRST the shields then the arty, it won't be able to keep up and you should break through.

Statistics: Posted by surtsan — 24 Nov 2017, 01:03

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-24T01:22:45+02:00

Seraphim mobile T3 shields hover and are the best thing for shielding navy due to their perfect size for shielding battleships and tempest without too much overlap. Their problem is the huge energy draw so you're usually better off with the cheaper T2 UEF shield boats even if they take more micro.

Harms are amazing, abuse them if possible. This means you don't have to creep over the whole of 20km map, enemy doesn't have massive cruiser spam(as sera/UEF) to counter them or tons of air.

Subs are great if microed/not countered properly, this applies to all tech levels.
- T1 subs in mass are superior to frigates if you've got air control(T1 bombers and torps hard counter them) and you aren't Aeon(because those can't kill mexes.) Small numbers of subs are inferior to frigates due to the time it takes for them to kill the Frigates.
- T2 subs beat frigates, T1 subs, cooperless UEF navy but get hard countered by Aeon Destroyers, Cybran Destroyers, Coopers and T2 torp bombers. Sera Destroyers are kind of an even trade. THIS ALSO APPLIES TO SUBMERGED SERA SUBS(NEVER FIGHT VS CYBRAN OR AEON DESTROYERS SUBMERGED!)
- T3 sera subs beat almost everything if microed and you have air control(and if you're safe from surface fire, you can surface to fight back, there's pretty good anti-air on those.) Just beware of Solace(Aeon T3 torp bomber,) Coopers, HARMS and the odd Megalith.

Aeon T2 mobile shields hover and are simply amazing for shielding your navy, you should always get them. The bad thing is they are too small to cover a Tempest so you need Sera or UEF tech for that.

You can rush a Tempest without getting a T3 naval HQ(if you've got T3 tech from somewhere else.) This can be useful since a fast Tempest will hit the field around the same time as their first Battleship.

Cybran T3 sonars have large stealth fields, get those always, if possible.

Ultimate lategame navy is T3 sera subs/harms, tempest, sera t3 mobile shields/uef shield boats and uef+sera cruisers mixed with enough Cybran sonars to stealth. This is ridiculously expensive and complicated though so a more realistic lategame navy is just straight UEF mix with Summits, Shieldboats, Cruisers and a few Neptunes(if they build hover/frigates, microed destros) and coopers(if they have subs) thrown in if necessary.

Battlecruiser are expensive but stack dmg on a nice range and don't waste dps

Highest DPS normal naval unit as well. But they are very weak compared to mass cost so protect them well.
But waste dps is not quite right, they always hit but their cannons still have traveling speed so they do waste dps when changing targets. Less than other type weapons but they still do.

Sera Bships can build nukes but those are more expensive than other nukes (50% higher cost)

the fug, seriously?, since when?

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 24 Nov 2017, 00:46

Re: The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-23T22:17:27+02:00

cybran frigs are the cheapest and thus the best
aeon frigs have no aa and are the worst
uef frigs have jamming which is kinda nice

t2 subs lose vs cybran/aeon destro and lose hard vs the uef torp boat - don't use them vs those
destro micro is key - dodge enemy fire as much as possible if you fight cybran/aeon with seraphim and use shield boats with uef

Battlecruiser are expensive but stack dmg on a nice range and don't waste dps so they are incredible at killing lower tech spam as long as they are not unprotected (shields, frigs, torp boats if need be also cruiser)
UEF Battleship have the most range and high alpha dmg - best Battleship despite highest cost
Aeon BShip can dodge UEF BShip shots and has the lowest range so better do some tryhard micro and spam mobile shields unless you wanna die in lategame naval fights
Sera Bships can build nukes but those are more expensive than other nukes (50% higher cost)
Cybran Bships are the cheapest and easiest to spam but the faction has no shields so better use your stealth or you're fucked

Atlantis are nice cause of the massive range and ability to repair/refuel lots of air units - don't build them for main combat
Tempests are terribly inefficient in terms of mass but can be built very fast - don't build them unless you have too many res to spare or can't stack up any more dmg by making more BShips due to limited range

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 23 Nov 2017, 22:17

The secrets of navy unleased, maybe

2017-11-23T21:38:07+02:00

Hello, I never play water maps usually but dunno this year I'm a bit interested in it, and I don't know much about it. So I would like to know all the secrets of navy (how do you play it, tips...and so on) . Or is there any uptodate video about navy ?

What I know :

>>t1 phase :
tips :
t1 sera arty don't win at all against frigates
aurora are -???- against frigates
1 sub can win against infinite frigates
t1 aeon/sera/cyb/uef : no clue if there is anything to know.
t1 aeon frig has no aa and has instead anti torpedo

strategy :
spam frigates (and if needed a few subs, depends on their mix...)

>>t2 phase :
tips :
have some factories spamming frigates, they will be used as meatshields to protect your destroyers
also have at least 1 cruiser (depends the air situation...) to protecc from torpedo bombers.
you can wipe a t2 navy spam with torpedo bomber t2 if there is no cruiser or not enough (focus cruiser >> then destroyers)
if you are against cybran, your only counter is by spamming t1 scout to get vision of his navy (or killing his cloak boats with torpedo bomber)
subs t2? I don't know
assist with some engies your t2 navy factory
uef has shield boat, cybran has cloak boats compared to other factions
I saw some weird things with Amphibious/hover t2 tank too... I don't know much about that

strategy :
mainly spam destroyers for your mix
classic mix (random numbers I've no clue) : 1 cruiser - 5/6 destroyers - 1 cloak/shield boat - 20 frigates
You can dance with your boats to dodge shots too from the destroyers
Meatshield with your frigates in front of your destroyers

>>t3 phase :
tips :
I guess same as t2, you spam only battleships... I don't know

strategy :
mix ??????

>>t3/t4 :
tips :
You have atlantis for uef and tempest for aeon(more like a support unit I guess)

strategy :
mix ?????

So if you have any tips, or to correct on something or any suggestion go ahead.

Thanks for help

EDIT : forgot to say that's nice to micro your boats to focus one destroyer at a time for example, to kill faster

Statistics: Posted by surtsan — 23 Nov 2017, 21:38