Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T20:20:59+02:00

pip wrote:
By the way, where is Brute51?

I'm here! Sorry for this useless post....

Statistics: Posted by Brute51 — 21 Feb 2012, 20:20

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T16:29:47+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
Ok, but the fix is not to make the arty able to fire while moving. It's a pretty big balance change.

By doing that you don't fix anything, you just hide the bug (I know that more than half the code of FA is doing that, but we try to not reproduce the errors of GPG)

I certainly would prefer some other way to fix the issue. But I suspect it's not so easy

I am merely reporting bugs that exist in FAF. Diamond "fixes" them in some way that is not necessarily the best, but the good side is that it points some annoying bugs like that in the first place.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 21 Feb 2012, 16:29

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T16:06:18+02:00

Ok, but the fix is not to make the arty able to fire while moving. It's a pretty big balance change.

By doing that you don't fix anything, you just hide the bug (I know that more than half the code of FA is doing that, but we try to not reproduce the errors of GPG)

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 Feb 2012, 16:06

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T15:52:20+02:00

Have you checked the replay i posted in my previous post ?

The bug occurs at 5:48 with the cybran factory and then after 8 min in the Seraphim factory (but since this arty dies very fast), you have to pay attention to spot it.
Even though the rally point is the same, even though the first arties had normal behaviour, at some point two arties got stuck. Granted, I can manually order it to move, but if i'm paying attention to the front and my t3 land fac stop producing because of this bug, it can cost a game.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 21 Feb 2012, 15:52

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T12:52:17+02:00

The repository is available to anyone, so if anyone want to try to fix, he is welcomed.

I know that I won't have time for this.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 Feb 2012, 12:52

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T12:49:48+02:00

Ah, ok, I got what you mean. Indeed, both is the way to go if possible.

It's impossible for me to know wether in Diamond you get both resto and vet or just resto. But in my opinion, if it's not possible to have both at the same time, having the higher one in most of the cases that are useful (ie from t2 on) is better, and it's resto field. Only for t1 units vet is better, and it's not everyday that you have 3 or 4 stars tanks next to your ACU (unlike t2 assault bots for instance).

Statistics: Posted by pip — 21 Feb 2012, 12:49

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T12:39:58+02:00

I'm not saying that the gunship should behave like that, I'm saying that it goes outside the scope of a bugfix. Same for the t3 arty.
I'm not saying we will never do it, but not in 3612.

In FAF: Resto field regen is replaced by veterancy regen while the unit is still in the AOE of the Resto field. You need to get out of the field and then enter it again before benefitting again from the field.

In Diamond : Resto Field is replaced by veterancy regen while the unit is still in the AOE of the Resto field just for one second, then the higher value regen applies again, without the need to get out of the field.

So, in FAF, you get veterancy over restoration field.
In Diamond, you get restoration over veterancy.

The proper behavior, what I will considerate as a real fix, is to have both (veterancy + field).

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 Feb 2012, 12:39

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T12:33:11+02:00

I don't understand : why UEF and Cybran t3 gunships should have a better behaviour than t2 gunships? I also don't think gunships should be able to shoot straight down, but they should automatically back off. Otherwise, they will be locked on top of their target and shoot in the ground for no reason, unless you order them to move away manually.
If you think this is the proper behaviour a gunship should have, then "fix" t3 UEF and Cybran gunships which don't work like that.

In Diamond and probably 3603, resto field works without a problem with veterancy. I don't understand why you say it's not a real fix. There is nothing to fix in the first place: the removal of the health buff should not interfere with the way resto field works with veterancy. That's probably what is causing the issue in FAF.

I believe i need to elaborate a replay with all the issues so that you can better check what is best to do. I'll do that this afternoon.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 21 Feb 2012, 12:33

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T11:50:34+02:00

Some will not be fixed. The gunship bug is not a bug, for exemple.

None of the fix of the resto field is a real fix. I prefer to have a real fix than having another half-done one.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 Feb 2012, 11:50

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T11:44:53+02:00

Ah ok, i was a bit pissed to have written something for nothing. But they were labeled as "solved" a bit too soon.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 21 Feb 2012, 11:44

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T11:38:54+02:00

disappears because closed. You can find them by clicking "all" instead of "open".

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 Feb 2012, 11:38

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-21T11:30:55+02:00

I commented in bitbucket on the issues I reported but the comments disappeared.

All the issues that I reported have been tested. They are not balanced issues, but bug issues. Only the improvement for T4 bomber was not a bug issue, just an enhancement.
I upload here a replay to show how the t3 arty bug happens, even though it's unconsistent.

The resto field bug, I already explained it several times, I can't be more specific, you need to check the regen rate of a unit like a t2 destroyer for instance : veterancy will override resto field regen in FAF but not in Diamond (in Diamond, it's only for a second, and with no need to move away from ACU). It affects both resto field, not just the 2nd one. If you can't reproduce it, I don't know what your problem is or the difference between my version of FAF and yours. I can save a replay if you fail to see what I mean.
I say Diamond because I can't revert back to just 3603 but I believe Diamond did nothing special compared to 3603, FAF seems to have something different.

As for Seraphim flak not shooting straight up, just fly a gunship over it and see that nothing happens when the gunship is just on top. Do the same with any other mobile flak and they will shoot it.

As for the issue where all t2 gunships fire around their target when they are just on top of it, whereas T3 UEF and Cybran gunships actually work, I fail to see how it is a balance issue. If gunships are not supposed to shoot staight below them, then there should be a routine forcing them to back off a bit (same routine that T3 UEF and Cybran gunships have). Test it for real before dismissing it as a balance issue.

You can also test a t2 gunship just on top of a seraphim mobile flak : gunship will fail to hit the flak and the flak will just do nothing. If you call that balance rather than bug, then we have different conceptions of things.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 21 Feb 2012, 11:30

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-20T19:18:09+02:00

Ok, I'll try to use this bucket thing. There are a few other bugs that are better fixed in Diamond than in FAF that Funkoff hasn't reported yet either. But I'll test the ones I haven't yet first.

EDIT: I reported the issues I tested that are solved by the diamond patch.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 20 Feb 2012, 19:18

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-20T18:28:06+02:00

https://bitbucket.org/thepilot/forged-a ... tatus=open

I've already reported that specific bug, you can report others.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 20 Feb 2012, 18:28

Re: Restoration fields behaviour

2012-02-20T12:08:53+02:00

Here is how it works :

In FAF: Resto field regen is replaced by veterancy regen while the unit is still in the AOE of the Resto field. You need to get out of the field and then enter it again before benefitting again from the field.

In Diamond : Resto Field is replaced by veterancy regen while the unit is still in the AOE of the Resto field just for one second, then the higher value regen applies again, without the need to get out of the field.

There's a bug in FAF resto field lua.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 20 Feb 2012, 12:08