Forged Alliance Forever

Re: WWTT (World Wide Team Tournament)

2014-10-20T13:43:16+02:00

Postponed until BRNKoINSANITY's awesome Tournament is over!

Start is somewhen at the beginning of december!

Statistics: Posted by PsychoBoB — 20 Oct 2014, 13:43

Re: WWTT (World Wide Team Tournament)

2014-10-11T21:31:12+02:00

Ok mega lol and mega my bad i thought this was the clan tournament proposed by TheSaddestPanda xD

Indeed your setting make sense for a Team Tournament Also you can remove a lot of sense from my comments about showing clan skills since its team ^^

Sorry for reading too fast. I think we will send teams then With a rating limit of 1500-1600 per player since the goal is not to showcase the skill of a whole clan it is perfectly fine and we will adapt to the rules.

The initially chosen rating limit of even only 5000 per 4 player team based on the ratings of the players in our small clan (700-1400) but i see this is not durable and we just won't take part on this tourney. But that's no problem for me. I just want to make a good tourney

I think if your intention is to showcase a Team Tournament with mixed low/average teams instead of good/average ones it is perectly fine and you should'nt remove yourself from the event just to please everyone else ^^ There are not enough average tournament around for players in the 700 - 1400 rating range, especially team ones !

To fix the subteams per round is intended and gives the tourney a meta strategy. You have to choose your subteams wisely!
I don't want the possibility for the teams to send in their best players for each map. This would cause that only the top two or top four players of a team take part and the others are only substitutes. You have to set up two 2v2 teams and one 4v4 team per round!

Well again considering it is a Team Tournament it makes sense and make it more interesting indeed. Anyway the maps are nice

Statistics: Posted by Poch — 11 Oct 2014, 21:31

Re: WWTT (World Wide Team Tournament)

2014-10-11T16:02:41+02:00

First of all: Thanks for your contructive comment!

Poch wrote:
4 players max per team : this is way too low considering it will take place during several weeks. After first week you will start seeing clans asking to swap people as long as they respect the rating limit because some won't be available. And we all have players better at some stuff than others or that work better together. Also our clan is ~15 regular players and they are not always there. With THAT many matches, if you restrict to 4 it becomes a lot of work for them while all other players wanting to participate won't be allowed too. Extend to at least 6-8 people (or better : all the clan since its a clan tournament !!!) and raise rating limit accordingly. Then add another rule to have rating limit for the 2v2 and 4v4 matches, you just need it to be proportionnal. It is exactly the same rules but more flexible. So if i keep 4 players & 6k rating limit that is : 2v2 limit of 3k rating max ; 4v4 limit is 6k rating. You will see more interesting matches that way. And even if i really want to play this, being commited to play that many games is kinda overwhelming for me.
Rating limit : It is average 1,5k per player, i would like to see it raised to 1,6k for flexibility. If we can't even send a 1600 and a 1500 for a 2v2 we won't be playing many matches. BFA players are 90% 1500 and 1600 rated and then it directly goes to to 1200. And we don't have good players above 1600 to balance a 1200 for example. Only player above 1.6k is keyser who is directly 1.9k so even him can't play with a 1.2k and respect rating limit.

This is not planned as a clan tournament. Intentionally it is a team tournament. If your clan has ~15 regular players send two or even three teams in.

I have some ideas to handle player switches if someone is not available but your concept has some interresting points:
I think i'll extend to 6 players per team and use rating limits for the matches instead (maybe 3500 for the 2v2 and 7000 for the 4v4).

The initially chosen rating limit of even only 5000 per 4 player team based on the ratings of the players in our small clan (700-1400) but i see this is not durable and we just won't take part on this tourney. But that's no problem for me. I just want to make a good tourney

Pre-decided maps : Since its a BO3, for the first 2 matches i propose that each team chose a map. For the 3rd you can fix them or ask the team captains to vote for the 3rd maps in this topic. I don't mind it to be fixed but i think it would be more fun if the first 2 rounds were played on a map decided by each clan, depending on the team they want to send, etc. Forbid the same map to be picked up more than 1 time. Again if you want to see clan skill and fun+original play this will be a way better setting even if i must say your map selection is really nice. Also this means the team has to be fixed for the 3 matches so you can't just send the better players on the map your opponent team every time. All maps just have to be 20km*20km at most (or 10*10 if really a lot of people have bad computers idk) and be balanced (symetrical) with no integrated map-script.

A fixed mappool has some advantages:
- I can avoid silly fun games like thermo or rohan
- every team knows the maps a view weeks before the tourney starts an can train their participiants
- every team has to face the same advantages / disadvantages of a map

To fix the subteams per round is intended and gives the tourney a meta strategy. You have to choose your subteams wisely!
I don't want the possibility for the teams to send in their best players for each map. This would cause that only the top two or top four players of a team take part and the others are only substitutes. You have to set up two 2v2 teams and one 4v4 team per round!

Forbid quitting game before match ends : maybe that's what you meant by exit by game score. That way no desync. You would had stayed to the end anyway if you didn't died so it's not even arguable imo. A tournament SHOULD had 100% working replays for the sake of the show

This!

Statistics: Posted by PsychoBoB — 11 Oct 2014, 16:02

Re: WWTT (World Wide Team Tournament)

2014-10-11T14:01:29+02:00

Hey

This a great idea, and a nice setup but as-is i think the rules aren't perfect.

I post my comments quickly :

4 players max per team : this is way too low considering it will take place during several weeks. After first week you will start seeing clans asking to swap people as long as they respect the rating limit because some won't be available. And we all have players better at some stuff than others or that work better together. Also our clan is ~15 regular players and they are not always there. With THAT many matches, if you restrict to 4 it becomes a lot of work for them while all other players wanting to participate won't be allowed too. Extend to at least 6-8 people (or better : all the clan since its a clan tournament !!!) and raise rating limit accordingly. Then add another rule to have rating limit for the 2v2 and 4v4 matches, you just need it to be proportionnal. It is exactly the same rules but more flexible. So if i keep 4 players & 6k rating limit that is : 2v2 limit of 3k rating max ; 4v4 limit is 6k rating. You will see more interesting matches that way. And even if i really want to play this, being commited to play that many games is kinda overwhelming for me.
Rating limit : It is average 1,5k per player, i would like to see it raised to 1,6k for flexibility. If we can't even send a 1600 and a 1500 for a 2v2 we won't be playing many matches. BFA players are 90% 1500 and 1600 rated and then it directly goes to to 1200. And we don't have good players above 1600 to balance a 1200 for example. Only player above 1.6k is keyser who is directly 1.9k so even him can't play with a 1.2k and respect rating limit.
Pre-decided maps : Since its a BO3, for the first 2 matches i propose that each team chose a map. For the 3rd you can fix them or ask the team captains to vote for the 3rd maps in this topic. I don't mind it to be fixed but i think it would be more fun if the first 2 rounds were played on a map decided by each clan, depending on the team they want to send, etc. Forbid the same map to be picked up more than 1 time. Again if you want to see clan skill and fun+original play this will be a way better setting even if i must say your map selection is really nice. Also this means the team has to be fixed for the 3 matches so you can't just send the better players on the map your opponent team every time. All maps just have to be 20km*20km at most (or 10*10 if really a lot of people have bad computers idk) and be balanced (symetrical) with no integrated map-script.
Forbid quitting game before match ends : maybe that's what you meant by exit by game score. That way no desync. You would had stayed to the end anyway if you didn't died so it's not even arguable imo. A tournament SHOULD had 100% working replays for the sake of the show

Statistics: Posted by Poch — 11 Oct 2014, 14:01

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-10T15:46:13+02:00

Mappool is now completely revised! Please check first post!

Apofenas wrote:
Meow wrote:
Spoiler: show
I think its a greta idea, but as many players already stated above 5000 is a bit to low.

I wouldnt go so far as to split the tourney up into u5000, u7000 and o7000 or anything like that... Since that would IMHO just render the rating limit useless. Instead just raising the rating from 5000 to 6000 would perhaps be enough, that way a team could consist of 4 1500 players, and if a player like for example; Speed2 ware to play he would need a 1000 player beside him to balance it out.

5000 just means if any 2k+ player joins he will have to have impossibly low-rated teammates, since most high rated people that would be interested in the tourny, usually play with friends ranging from 1000-2000.

All of my friends that I can invite are 1500+ and neither of us is 2k. Am i supposed to get a random ~1k rated player to face a real team work from 4 player team?

If i raise the rating limit to maybe 7000 then you will get very very strong teams and the tourney is for avarage joe's and below unappealing. But my goal is to get as many teams in this tourney as possible.
The rating limit should be part of the strategic part of the tourney. Ok, 5000 was really a bit optimistic but 6000 should be ok.

Statistics: Posted by PsychoBoB — 10 Oct 2014, 15:46

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-10T01:01:32+02:00

Meow wrote:
Spoiler: show
I think its a greta idea, but as many players already stated above 5000 is a bit to low.

I wouldnt go so far as to split the tourney up into u5000, u7000 and o7000 or anything like that... Since that would IMHO just render the rating limit useless. Instead just raising the rating from 5000 to 6000 would perhaps be enough, that way a team could consist of 4 1500 players, and if a player like for example; Speed2 ware to play he would need a 1000 player beside him to balance it out.

5000 just means if any 2k+ player joins he will have to have impossibly low-rated teammates, since most high rated people that would be interested in the tourny, usually play with friends ranging from 1000-2000.

All of my friends that I can invite are 1500+ and neither of us is 2k. Am i supposed to get a random ~1k rated player to face a real team work from 4 player team?

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 10 Oct 2014, 01:01

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T22:38:36+02:00

Meow wrote:
I tried to keep the mapsizes small to save time

You mean this will be played in one go?

No, this is not possible. Ideally the tourney lasts two weekends depending on the count of teams. If it takes three or even four weeks it would be still ok and i would be pleased if there are a lot of teams signing in.

Statistics: Posted by PsychoBoB — 09 Oct 2014, 22:38

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T22:10:40+02:00

I tried to keep the mapsizes small to save time

You mean this will be played in 1 go?

I just presumed, since its 4 games for each round, that teams would have 1 week to play their games and report results till sunday or something. And maybe have a set time on sunday or saturday, where teams that haven't played their games during the week have to be online to play, or forfeit the game, to keep it draw-free if people dont play their games on time.

Statistics: Posted by Meow — 09 Oct 2014, 22:10

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T20:23:04+02:00

I tried to keep the mapsizes small to save time. But i want to make this tourney as attractive as possible. Plz make suggestions for maps.
Tomorrow i will do an overhaul of the mappool!

Statistics: Posted by PsychoBoB — 09 Oct 2014, 20:23

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T18:00:56+02:00

I didn't look at maps before but now I did and I unfortunately think the whole 2v2 mappool and some of 4v4 needs to be revised. 5x5 maps not a good idea for 2v2! A lot of people think they are too small even for 1v1! I've experience of this from the matchmaker testing period. 10x10 is minimum for 2v2. I might comment more later but gtg kthxbai

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 09 Oct 2014, 18:00

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T17:39:27+02:00

I think its a greta idea, but as many players already stated above 5000 is a bit to low.

I wouldnt go so far as to split the tourney up into u5000, u7000 and o7000 or anything like that... Since that would IMHO just render the rating limit useless. Instead just raising the rating from 5000 to 6000 would perhaps be enough, that way a team could consist of 4 1500 players, and if a player like for example; Speed2 ware to play he would need a 1000 player beside him to balance it out.

5000 just means if any 2k+ player joins he will have to have impossibly low-rated teammates, since most high rated people that would be interested in the tourny, usually play with friends ranging from 1000-2000.

Statistics: Posted by Meow — 09 Oct 2014, 17:39

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T17:32:29+02:00

Like i said it's definitely not my last word. Maybe i should raise to 6000.

Statistics: Posted by PsychoBoB — 09 Oct 2014, 17:32

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T17:18:27+02:00

4 players and max 5000 rating? then you wont see many good players is this tourney

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 09 Oct 2014, 17:18

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T17:13:57+02:00

Thanks for your comments.

I chose the 5000 rating to avoid "dream teams" and to give the tourney more strategic depth. It's definitely not my last word but it would be nice to get a lot "average joe's" in the tourney maybe even newbies combined with pros.
I don't want to split the tourney into several divisions because i think there will be barely enough teams to get one good tourney together...

I tried to use 5x5 maps for the 2v2s and 10x10 maps for the 4v4s but as you say there are a some shitty maps in the pool. I searched the vault and put the most played maps in. Maybe i have to rethink.

Please suggest more maps and other ideas you want to have in this tourney!

Statistics: Posted by PsychoBoB — 09 Oct 2014, 17:13

Re: Idea for a team tourney

2014-10-09T13:24:18+02:00

Also about maps:I'm not against 5x5 maps being here at all, but you have like 70% of those in here, which is really terrinle. Can you change it please?

Also please remove some shitty maps like cluster freak; winter duel, road to vega, waters of isis, Fight of the giants V3(a single isis is enough, no need to put more versions in here.)

Some maps to be included:
Drake's ravine(2v2), Emerald crater(2v2), Ozone islands(2v2), Haven of war(basicaly a 3v3, but maps will change itself for 2v2 for any slots), Roanoke abyss(2v2), S islands(4v4), Dragoons(4v4), DeltaSiegeDry V8(4v4), Lost paradise(4v4), Planet Lettuce(4v4), Muontain lake(4v4), Destiny v3(4v4)

Take a look on these.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 09 Oct 2014, 13:24