Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-07T13:33:11+02:00

I agree the sheep effect has more than 50% of this cybran trend but it's still strongly linked to this mantis problem.

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 07 Apr 2013, 13:33

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-07T12:31:51+02:00

Same phenomena after fixing the 100 bugs on the seraphim at FAF release. Most of the players were seraphim.

Are they OP ?

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 07 Apr 2013, 12:31

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-07T11:45:47+02:00

Since the mantis "bug fix" :

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 07 Apr 2013, 11:45

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-07T11:35:38+02:00

Everyone using Cybran doesn't fix the problem.

Statistics: Posted by ZaphodX — 07 Apr 2013, 11:35

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-07T01:34:59+02:00

as a matter of fact....i started playing cybran now, too :-/

Statistics: Posted by Hascins — 07 Apr 2013, 01:34

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-07T01:18:00+02:00

you know, leave it as it is, started play cybran anyway now... so doesnt matter anymore

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 07 Apr 2013, 01:18

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-06T19:14:04+02:00

Hi guys,

Even if i am mainly a aeon player i don't think mantis op. I saw some tests and make my owns and don't see a reason to change the turret speed back.

mantis is a bot which mean microable and able to shoot at something while microed ... If you put the turret speed bank this is no bot anymore --- And seriousely it was a pain to see this unit sucking that much .. A slightly direction's change were enough to make the mantis not shooting at all for some precious time !
Adjust the cost if you feel this is too cheap but don't change this back

Regards

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 06 Apr 2013, 19:14

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-02T16:09:14+02:00

CrazedChariot wrote:
I think uef players are slightly over reacting.

I agree

But yes the early Mantis raiding is a pain, labs are usless and tanks from the other factions are always too slow.
Not a big problem, but would be nice if we can think about it.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 02 Apr 2013, 16:09

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-02T14:34:56+02:00

Zock and I have run a bunch of tests with the t1 units.

Mantis vs Striker (Unmicroed) Striker will still win easy
Mantis vs Striker (Microed) Mantis wins this now, although its fairly even with larger groups

Mantis vs Aurora (Microed) Aeon player will crush mantis unless mantis dodge and weave. If Mantis can dodge shots, it gets very close. Much more micro for the cybran player
Striker vs Aurora (Microed) Same as above. The Aurora will crush striker unless the strikers dodge. It requires much more micro by Uef player

I agree with Blackheart. The biggest change is that in early t1 , the mantis can dodge shots and beat strikers in 1v1 or 2v2 situations.

This isn't a massive issue, as strikers used to beat mantis in 1v1 or 2v2 situations. There are a bunch of ways to even this out. two options are below.

- Swap Mantis Cost with Striker
- Slighly Decrease Mantis Turrett so it is somewhere between this patch and last patch

The speed of the mantis is overrated imo. It is barely noticeable when you test it in game.

I think uef players are slightly over reacting. Mantis might be slightly too powerful as of last patch, but strikers were slightly too powerful for almost all patches before that.

Statistics: Posted by CrazedChariot — 02 Apr 2013, 14:34

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-02T12:51:05+02:00

I don't mean to go off topic, but I am under the impression that many players just like Cybran the best. I mainly play Cybran and that's simply because they are the coolest looking. As long as factions are reasonably balanced you will see an overrepresentation of Cybran players.

Statistics: Posted by Tango_X — 02 Apr 2013, 12:51

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-02T11:11:14+02:00

They are played more, but the win rate is not higher.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 02 Apr 2013, 11:11

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-02T11:10:51+02:00

I'm proudly playing UEF only in ladder...cuz they are the good guys ...but lately I got the feeling that most of my opponents in ladder are cybran now. I know I'm a lowranked player but even I recognize, that I need about 4 labs to kill 1 mantis. In addition its quite impossible for me to win on a 5x5 map without teching up. I dont want to switch to cybran, but i can understand why a lot of people change sides.

Is there already data available if cybran is played more (on ladder) and their win rate (prefereably on small maps)?

Statistics: Posted by Hascins — 02 Apr 2013, 11:10

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-02T10:54:29+02:00

Aaaand you didnt test the biggest issue... Strikers vs Mantis 1v1.. Because thats the problem: Early game raid where you have enough time to micro with 1 mantis - you cant defend it with 1 tank anymore. That fucks UEF (and maybe sera) completely up. Also the additional speed of Mantis just makes it mandatory to make this tank weaker! If you say cybran arty is bad i have to say that you are just wrong Also bad micro from time to time in your tests, you have to get used to the timing of your opponents tank shots so you can dodge everytime a shell gets off. Clicking like crazy wont help too much, refined clicks every second or so is the key. You also dont seem to know that the Cybran Acu gets more hp with t2 and t3 upgrade in comparasion to UEF - vet gives more hp then so the difference gets smaller and smaller (this is also the cause why sera t3 acus have hell lots of life). Another problem is that you cant micro Strikers or thams like you micro mantis now, because the suffer from the same problem the mantis did - they wont shoot because their turret isnt in position yet. Also mantis micro is way easier, more precise and reliable because of the additional speed which makes dodging pretty easy. In small numbers mantis rip everything apart on t1 stage and its not possible to make up for that on 5x5 which the current mappool consists of. On 10x10 with alot of reclaim of course its not too bad because you can still outplay your opponent, but winning there is not due to faction balance but due to difference in player skill. I hope this small novel explained why you dont see matches o1900 without Cybran anymore and why the ladder isnt played too much anymore (which also may be caused by the map pool but thats another topic)

Statistics: Posted by Blackheart — 02 Apr 2013, 10:54

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-04-01T23:42:20+02:00

So i did some more tests with crazed and mantis actually seem fine.

mantistest.fafreplay

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 01 Apr 2013, 23:42

Re: Mantis needs some quickfix

2013-03-28T09:10:27+02:00

the point for me in faction balance.
Mantis are best tank for raiding, to balance it they made him weak for early raiding, by making him bit weaker against labs

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 28 Mar 2013, 09:10