Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-03T12:29:07+02:00

FAF Civil War Season 26 Episode 1 !

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 03 May 2015, 12:29

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-03T12:25:37+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
In my opinion, the delay on this is not coding related, but because Mad Mozart is the only one bringing it up. Without input from lots of other players, the thing we NEED just hasn't materialized yet.

Mad Mozart - I think you should use your influence, and this thread, to come up with a DEFINITIVE, solid, fully-specced plan of what you want. Once there is a totally clear idea of what needs to be made, actually making it is much easier than if the end-game is changing as things are being done.

wut.... ?!?!
i've had countless rage discussion and yelling contests with people about the ladder.

Statistics: Posted by Gozert — 03 May 2015, 12:25

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-03T10:31:48+02:00

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9106#p97967

Some easy map pool changes I'd like to see. Also I know speed worked real hard on those maps, but why were they added? "Because they could be" isn't really good enough, you "could" add in a bunch of silly maps if you wanted, and there's still some kinda broken ones in the pool. FWIW one map is gimmicky, the other looks prone to cheese imo, but the quality of those maps is another story, they're hardly the worst in there. Also gtfo eggroll Canis is one of about 3 decent 5k maps grrrr kids these days. But seriously lets not go over each map in the pool again

I won't really have much chance to play FA for a while cos I'm moving, but I find myself not really missing it, and particularly not ladder matches, which used to be my favourite thing. This is largely due to the map pool. I know Mozart pisses people off with the way he writes, but i think he's mostly right. Redoing the map pool, and redoing the map algorithm, seem like reasonably low coding effort (given there's already bits and pieces being done almost unilaterally by coders to add maps/change maps/tweak the algorithm) for really high rewards. I don't think we need to wait two months for that stuff. TA has been elected immediately after screaming on the forums for a map pool overhaul, so what's going on?

What's actually going on with the council more generally anyway? Seems completely paralysed or inactive.

Statistics: Posted by Sir Prize — 03 May 2015, 10:31

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-03T01:54:53+02:00

I should also add: those of us doing development have an absurdly long TODO list to work through. There's about four people who contribute regularly on the coding side, so we're quite limited in terms of speed. We're getting there. Perhaps there should be a blog or something to give more transparency to what's going on all the time (at the moment you can follow along on GitHub, but that isn't terribly helpful:
https://github.com/FAForever/
)

I've heard a little about the ladder thing, I think it's due to be resolved when we get around to making the client less broken. For the time being most of the work going on is on the server or the ingame lua side on things.
So, maybe in the next two months, if you're lucky?

As usual, patches welcome.

Feel free to start arguing among yourselves about what's actually wanted while waiting for programmer hours to free up.

Statistics: Posted by ckitching — 03 May 2015, 01:54

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T23:23:48+02:00

In my opinion, the delay on this is not coding related, but because Mad Mozart is the only one bringing it up. Without input from lots of other players, the thing we NEED just hasn't materialized yet.

Mad Mozart - I think you should use your influence, and this thread, to come up with a DEFINITIVE, solid, fully-specced plan of what you want. Once there is a totally clear idea of what needs to be made, actually making it is much easier than if the end-game is changing as things are being done.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 02 May 2015, 23:23

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T22:38:48+02:00

speed2 wrote:
I think you can write as many post as you want about ladder, but that wont make it happen. Sheeo is doing connection problems afaik and who else would code new ladder? You? Someone? I think if there was someone who provide working code, it wouldnt take much time to implement it, but there is no one.
Yes some changes got through already, like my maps got added, cause thats simple change and most of the work was done by me, when I made those maps.
So find someone to do new ladder, do it yourself or wait till other like Sheeo will have time and will for that.

Hm, honestly, its the first time i hear this kind of arguement. Would be great if someone knowledgable comments how hard it actually is to code a) a new ladder b) make changes to existing

But you still seem to miss my point. Its not about raging at Sheeo for not coding something that i want. In fact, i kinda would mind him doing it right now, cause there is no clear desicion made yet and nothing to code so far. And its been like this for a long time now - there is no new ladder model to change to - and that is what needs to be looking into first. Also please note that im not even suggesting one. There have already been some decenst suggestions made and they just sank into pointless discussions.

What i want right now is some action taken to make a new model and only then put it onto to do list. I really dont care much about it being done immediately, rather some work going in that direction cause so far we've been only fed with endless "laters" and half-assed fluffs.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 02 May 2015, 22:38

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T22:27:22+02:00

Petricpwnz wrote:
Did you even read my post? While for lobby coding is 90% of the work for balance and ladder biggest part of the work is testing and discussion which nobody is doing.

well that's not true. At least for balance. Some people doing test and there is balance discussion. And some bug fixing are being done every week on github.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 02 May 2015, 22:27

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T22:08:45+02:00

No, when I clickrd reply button your post wasnt there yet

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 02 May 2015, 22:08

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T22:07:08+02:00

speed2 wrote:
I think you can write as many post as you want about ladder, but that wont make it happen. Sheeo is doing connection problems afaik and who else would code new ladder? You? Someone? I think if there was someone who provide working code, it wouldnt take much time to implement it, but there is no one.
Yes some changes got through already, like my maps got added, cause thats simple change and most of the work was done by me, when I made those maps.
So find someone to do new ladder, do it yourself or wait till other like Sheeo will have time and will for that.

Did you even read my post? While for lobby coding is 90% of the work for balance and ladder biggest part of the work is testing and discussion which nobody is doing.

Statistics: Posted by Petricpwnz — 02 May 2015, 22:07

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T21:52:33+02:00

I think you can write as many post as you want about ladder, but that wont make it happen. Sheeo is doing connection problems afaik and who else would code new ladder? You? Someone? I think if there was someone who provide working code, it wouldnt take much time to implement it, but there is no one.
Yes some changes got through already, like my maps got added, cause thats simple change and most of the work was done by me, when I made those maps.
So find someone to do new ladder, do it yourself or wait till other like Sheeo will have time and will for that.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 02 May 2015, 21:52

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T21:40:01+02:00

Agree on most points there. And that's not only the ladder problem, I hear this stuff that lobby and connections are the highest priority right now, but that's the highest priority only to sheeo and other coders, there is alot of stuff that can be done by mortal humans without coding skills to improve people's experience in faf. Making a model of a good ladder mappool system and some balance work would be a good start (we don't even have a balance councilor selected after months since players councilor was chosen.) Balancing is 95% testing and 5% changing numbers and sometimes reworking something. A ladder system can be designed without implementing it, just need people assigned to it, who will discuss the issue. I understand that people don't have infinite free time but there could be alot more things done, I made a thread some time ago about tutorials tab rework and even PMed visi about it but nobody wants to show some initiative. This situation is like FA and CPU relation, 1 core is working as hard as it can while others are chilling aside

Statistics: Posted by Petricpwnz — 02 May 2015, 21:40

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T21:25:29+02:00

I Agree. Some of the maps in ladder pool REALLY suck (canis 1v1), and the fact that division and league and stuff doesnt mean anything is also kind of a bummer. I agree with this but i dont have much to contribute

Statistics: Posted by theeggroll — 02 May 2015, 21:25

Re: Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T21:13:48+02:00

Or if you think im wrong, prove it and that the ladder is currently fine and doesnt need changes.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 02 May 2015, 21:13

Just another ladder ragethread

2015-05-02T21:13:08+02:00

Ok so if you are reading this and think current ladder system has issues, post your opinion here. Lets finally bring some attention to it so something gets done already. Especially now, since we have a specific someone *cough* to blame *cough* for all our problems or if something goes wrong, and who has power to influence things.

So a short list of what changes ladder could use:
- map pool
- map selection algorithm
- whole system overhaul
- dolphins smoking weed
- something else

Ok, now on a super serious note:
1. Who is there to actually recognize this field in FAF needs some attention and changes? Seton council or player councillor? I've been fed since the election of one this kind of bullshit that the council is still not up bla bla we cant make changes yet bla bla again.
2. Why i call this bullshit, is because the changes were actually been made. The map clearing and the not-very-ninja adding new maps (Monaki and the jam crystal one). When i asked about this, i've been told that the question been raised and council looked into it and approved it. So they actually are putting matters up there, look into them, make desicions.
3. Whatever else is happening now is just half measures to f*** off and move on the responsibility that noone wants to take. Map pool cleaning? Yea, cool. Change to map picking algorithm so you cant roll previous 5 maps played? I heard about couple weeks (or more) ago and its still due. But really there are more things to look into like above...
4. What holds people off from overhauling the ladder? We have the player councilor now so lets get things going. Like it was said before, there is no clear view of what a player councillor will do so hey here's a suitable job! Is it too big responsibility to take for just one man? - make a team of trusted individuals and brainstorm it.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 02 May 2015, 21:13