Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T20:01:41+02:00

It should be noted the cost to put mass storage around a T1 MEX offers no benefit, and players should upgrade their T1 MEXs to T2 first before placing storage. I'd say about half of players rated 500-600 are doing this. Less so as you play with guys in the 800-900 range.

Once you have all MEXs at T2, then you place storage which gives you a bonus of 1/mass per storage spot, so 4 additional mass per MEX once fully built. Then once you have this done then, you upgrade to T3 MEX unless you Mass coming in faster than you can store it then start building T3 MEX to offset your income and expense.

I also use templates to speed this process along, no point in clicking down all 4 storage for every mex, also no point in clicking down T2 Mass Fabs, I use a template for that too. I either build 8 of them leaving the center spot open, or using the same template they can be placed over a MEX with adjacent storage. They don't provide a full unit of mass increase but when you have four around 4 storage they do combine for additional mass income, at the expense of risk to attack. Very volatile.

I frequently find with building power storage and sufficient power in T2 to get RAS going, that I will have excess power early on and though T2, power which can be utilized for some limited T2Mass Fab Farms, ad advantage over those who don't build them. By the time you get to T3 you should begin shielding your MEXES anyway against arty or aerial attacks.

The whole concept of using factories next to MEXs doesn't work for me as I have less mass to work with overtime because it isn't portable the same way it would be with the storage I will need anyway while eco ramping.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 29 Apr 2015, 20:01

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T19:46:08+02:00

So in the end the good old "mass storage around mex" is still the best option?

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 29 Apr 2015, 19:46

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T18:31:01+02:00

keyser wrote:
well for 1 facto T2 vs 1 mass storage; or for 4 facto T2 vs 4 mass storage... it the same...

lol yeah I guess that is true.

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 29 Apr 2015, 18:31

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T15:33:02+02:00

Col_Walter_Kurtz wrote:
I'm not sure how the game handles rounding so I'm not entirely certain these numbers are accurate anyway.

TCJulian?

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 29 Apr 2015, 15:33

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T15:24:10+02:00

well for 1 facto T2 vs 1 mass storage; or for 4 facto T2 vs 4 mass storage... it the same...

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 29 Apr 2015, 15:24

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T15:16:25+02:00

For one factory? Is that including the income you get from the 3 storages (2.25 mass / tick income) that you can still use then?

I can't check what the mass / tick cost of T2 units is when building from a T2 factory atm so I can't compare. And I'm not sure how the game handles rounding so I'm not entirely certain these numbers are accurate anyway.

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 29 Apr 2015, 15:16

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T14:30:53+02:00

i remember vee saying that having T2 facto near a T2 mexx is better than mass storage. But then if you want to get to T3, it's better to put mass storage.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 29 Apr 2015, 14:30

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T13:40:35+02:00

For Percy spam at 19 mass / tick (from the OP) a 12.5% discount from T3 mex would mean 2.375 mass / tick bonus. Storage around a T3 mex gives you 2.25 mass / tick (according to the Wiki page). So the bonusses are very close, almost interchangeable.

Taking into account that you don't spam units constantly and storage bonus is always active regardless of what you do, I would say storage is still the best option overall. It is more versatile income.

I didn't calculate all possible configurations obviously. But I guess I will stop using mex adjacency for factories. Unless it's for a heavy T1 push or you think the game won't progress into T2 mex / storage stage (many ladder matches end early).

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 29 Apr 2015, 13:40

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T12:34:54+02:00

but what isnt clear (to me) is t1-fac-t1-mex adjacency is worth the click effort at all.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 29 Apr 2015, 12:34

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T12:03:02+02:00

Or you could use a combination, like 3 storage around the mex and a factory placed on the empty side or similar configuration. A clear benefit is that the adjacency bonus kicks in right away and will help early game.

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 29 Apr 2015, 12:03

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T11:59:29+02:00

i dont know

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 29 Apr 2015, 11:59

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-29T11:56:17+02:00

partytime wrote:
da_monstr wrote:placing 4 factories around a T1 mex gives the bonus near equivalent to upgrading the mex to T2

umm really that sounds really good but how does that work?

by my math you need something like
13 t1 factories OR
6 t2 factories OR
3 t3 factories
with adjacency to t1 mexes before you save 4 mass per second (which is what a t2 mex gives you extra)

another way of thinking about it is you need 13 t1 factories up and running before you save enough mass to support the 14th factory for free. which in my mind isn't worth thinking about.

or maybe this is it...
4x t2 Facs next to a t2 mex saves 3.6m/s. that is better but still not wonderful because I'd want to assist

am i on crack?

OK, I'm confused now. I assume it's always beneficial to upgrade to T2 mex, you don't want to stay on T1 eco forever. Let's say you build 4 landfacs next to a T1 mex. Everything gets upgraded to T3 as the game progresses. Does it actually make sense to use the adjacency bonus, or at what point is it actually better to just surround the mex with storage?

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 29 Apr 2015, 11:56

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-26T02:36:06+02:00

i tried for adjency of T2 mass fab on T2 mexx to reduce the cost of going T3 mexx.
i got like 115 mass reduction; which is 2.5%. Can you do the test to confirm that i didn't test it wrong way ?
(the T2 mass fab cost only 100, so you get +1 mass/-150 e then you get back 115 mass from the adjency, on top of that you get 81% of it in reclaim (to replace with mass storage).) So it may be better for ecoing (gap of rohan), to rush RAS on T2 mexx, use extra e to run your mass fab, and then have T3 mexx for lower cost.) (But if you assist T3 mexx, you don't get the full discount... so i don't really know if it worth it))

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 26 Apr 2015, 02:36

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-25T23:30:55+02:00

afaik the reduction caps at 100% - no mass generation from factories - sorry

also i ran into some discrepancies regarding mass extractor adjacency - the values in the wiki are correct for any building the same size as a factory - however a t1 mex receives 20% discount per adjacent t3 mex - which is just strange - it also means that im not 100% sure how adjacency scales with structure size anymore
it should be - 50% (12.5% * 4 since the mex is adjacent to 4 times as many mexes per side length as a factory)

still regarding factories those values are correct.

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 25 Apr 2015, 23:30

Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

2015-04-25T22:02:07+02:00

The Mak wrote:
Keyser, that is correct. If you could surround a factory with T1 mass extractors you will receive a 120% (7.5% x 16) mass reduction in the unit cost under construction. That is to say, you will get your unit for no cost in mass plus the factory turns into mass generator producing at 20% the mass cost of the unit. Plus all the mass generated from 16 mass extractors.

A mapper should make such a map.

You can do it on crazy rush.

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 25 Apr 2015, 22:02