Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-05T00:59:06+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
Yeah 60% is incorrect, correct is say 58,82. 10/17 = 58,823529...

Wrong math. The math you just did describes what percentage 10 is of 17 not how much higher 17 is compared to 10 in percentage terms which would be 70%.

As for the subject in general there is no problem.

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 05 Mar 2015, 00:59

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-04T23:08:54+02:00

Nombringer wrote:
Furthermore even if cybran WERE the best faction, I would very doubt this advantage would come purely from ONE aspect of ONE unit that barely has any impact on at least 50% of the ladder pool.

Of course im not that dumb. or i think that im not dumb, but its hard to make definitive conclusion when read all this reaction
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Of course 60% more regenration on one (core) units its not reason why most of higher player play cybran (cybran are no.1, maybe not best but sure that most popular).

Question that i want to place is, that is this regeneration bonus necessary ? Fix it problem with lower max hp ? Doesnt exist solution that fix this problem better as exemption?

*now i notice that i badly use word excuse when i want to use exemption (maybe im that dumb)

when posible can exist better way which fill lowest max hp better as more regeneration, would not be better have this solution?

Cybran T2 give 500hp more as others T2, and T3 also give 500hp more as other T3 (except sera - no idea why)
when would also battle upgrade take more max hp doesnt it fix problem better?

I see regeneration bonus as something that is trying fix bad situation but in realy doesnt work on problematick situation that is trying to fix, and only take unfair advantage on another situation.
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BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
Also, the "OMG 60% HIGHER" argument is a complete fraud (and incorrect..... 10 vs 17 regen is 70%). If it was 70% bonus to health, or to an actually significant number, yes 70% is huge

Yeah 60% is incorrect, correct is say 58,82. 10/17 = 58,823529...

And also in small number it make difference. If not it is necessary ? And doesnt exist another-better solution that deny max hp differences?
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And when everyone agree everything here is ok, then ok, have nothing against different opinion. I was trying to make discusion on this theme, not personal confrontation or "pusshing insine balance ideas"... So i think that we can end this topic

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 04 Mar 2015, 23:08

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-04T18:20:39+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
ZeRen wrote:Cybran nerf here Cybran nerf there, I wonder what nerf will be next

Ask why are most of 1800+ rating players play cybran. In past it was buff cybran here and here..

The 7hp/s is 60% more. Isnt 60% more brutal more? Ok it is not op, call it op was mistake, but it is excuse that dont fill problem and its excuse. Much better is take on acu more hp, or on some fight upgrade get new max hp, as make excuse that dont fill a problem and its excuse.

It take 58/47seconds(2*vet) to regenerate hp differences as have aeon, but for aeon it take 100/76sec to regenerate hp differences as have uef.

in this small numbers it is not brutal, and even if so what? cyb has some advantage on early stage, all other has big advantage in late stage, and even much bigger in mid stage

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 04 Mar 2015, 18:20

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-04T07:33:14+02:00

Also, the "OMG 60% HIGHER" argument is a complete fraud (and incorrect..... 10 vs 17 regen is 70%). If it was 70% bonus to health, or to an actually significant number, yes 70% is huge. However, if it is 70% of a small number, we are talking about a tiny tiny tiny difference overall in conjunction with having 1k health less than the next lowest commander.

70% of 10,000 is 7000, 70% increase in vet is a whopping 7 regen....... this 70% difference takes a couple of minutes to amount to anything, and by that time your ACU is dead because it started 1k health lower. To even regen a single ACU shot worth of health more than the other ACUs would take over 14 seconds. So vs another ACU every 15th shot doesn't count basically. UEF acu dies under fire from another ACU in less than 2:20. Cybran ACU, with extra regen, STILL dies in just over 2:00. It is undeniably weaker!

Even if you go to the second engagement, it would end roughly in a tie HP wise. If you go by surviving the death nuke, all other things being equal (which is ridiculous because tanks and arty and micro and other things will decide the game, not two ACU slugging at each other) it would take 6-8 engagements after full regen of Cybran ACU to survive vs the UEF ACU! There really is not a problem here.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 04 Mar 2015, 07:33

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-04T06:51:04+02:00

First off; Popular =/= best. Second; Most high ranks are playing random, or multiple.

Furthermore even if cybran WERE the best faction, I would very doubt this advantage would come purely from ONE aspect of ONE unit that barely has any impact on at least 50% of the ladder pool.

There are aspects of cybran I think are too strong; TML for one. But sure as hell not the ACU

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 04 Mar 2015, 06:51

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-04T01:12:27+02:00

Aulex wrote:
If you're talking team games, again this is not true, and i'm pretty sure people don't pick cybran because of the slightly better acu regen. Stop fabricating stats to cater towards your insane balance ideas.

What is my insane balance ideas? say me more about them, because im here trying make discusion about if is fair have more regeneration for only one fraction. Im not pushing here any balance ideas, at least i dont know about them, if you know more then share it.
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60% more you call "slightly"?

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 04 Mar 2015, 01:12

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-03T23:30:37+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
ZeRen wrote:Cybran nerf here Cybran nerf there, I wonder what nerf will be next

Ask why are most of 1800+ rating players play cybran.

If you're talking 1v1, this is definitely not true
If you're talking team games, again this is not true, and i'm pretty sure people don't pick cybran because of the slightly better acu regen. Stop fabricating stats to cater towards your insane balance ideas.

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 03 Mar 2015, 23:30

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-03T21:58:18+02:00

ZeRen wrote:
Cybran nerf here Cybran nerf there, I wonder what nerf will be next

Ask why are most of 1800+ rating players play cybran. In past it was buff cybran here and here..

The 7hp/s is 60% more. Isnt 60% more brutal more? Ok it is not op, call it op was mistake, but it is excuse that dont fill problem and its excuse. Much better is take on acu more hp, or on some fight upgrade get new max hp, as make excuse that dont fill a problem and its excuse.

It take 58/47seconds(2*vet) to regenerate hp differences as have aeon, but for aeon it take 100/76sec to regenerate hp differences as have uef.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 03 Mar 2015, 21:58

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-03T18:17:29+02:00

Cybran nerf here Cybran nerf there, I wonder what nerf will be next

mega's speed under water?
not movable Scathis?
???

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 03 Mar 2015, 18:17

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-03T04:35:00+02:00

"Brutal regen advantage" of a whole 7 hp/sec, lol. It needs more than 2 minutes to even make up for the hp disadvantage vs aeon. In addition aeon gets +100 hp extra per vet level, and x*100 extra heal where x is the vet level (so by level 5 aeon has gotten an additional 1500 hp heal).

Aeon acu is better than cybran. Early on aeon has an advantage with auroras, which are very strong in combination with the acu. The extra range on the gun gives you a lot of power and safety later on where you can often avoid to take any damage at all, and after that you can get shield which cybran obviously cannot match at all. In an eco game aeon has double RAS. So there is really no point in the game where cybran acu has an advantage over aeon acu, except extremely later on where cybran can go telelazer. Torp com is pretty much useless vs aeon destro.

Sera/uef acus are obviously way better than cybran.

So you are complaining about the worst ACU...why not complain about seraphim acu which is unfathomably many times stronger than cybran acu?

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 03 Mar 2015, 04:35

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-02T23:49:00+02:00

I was not try to make you look dump, im really sorry if you take it that, and please take my apologies.

aeon shield is awesome, but i think nano is stronger, most because regenerate for whole time, when with shield it need destroy whole shield risk with low healt (1/3) and after it start recharg shield.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 02 Mar 2015, 23:49

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-02T22:58:16+02:00

For Keyser

keyser wrote: How can you test that in a sandbox ??????????????????

here is sandbox ->

Do i really need to answer to something like that ? i'm not sure, i'm kind of confuse.
1- You just fight 2 acu and face them like retard. That does suit to a usual game at all.
2- You just fought a ACU with an upgrade that cost 1500 with another that upgrade cost 1000. And you trying to make me look as dumb. You shall make your brain work sometime.
3- you just need to get your acu away from opponent acu to recharge the shield and get back into fight... As the sera ACU can do the same to regen since his regen is faster than aeon com (when aeon com isn't recharging shield).
4- I just made a dumb sandbox, just to show you how dumb is your reasoning. It's T2 shield ACU vs Nano shield ACU. (this time it's 1720 mass vs 1500, ie more balance fight than yours.)
5- if you take the number i gave you before, when i put the stat of shield as if it would have cost 2k mass, the shield take enough damage to put opponent ACU under 2.5k hp and kill it in the blast.
6- finally a shield allow you to survive against snipe way moooooooooooore. You regen pay of with time and micro. That's why cybran sACU are really weak without micro, but are really good counter to T3 with micro.

Now, if you want me to say something that goes with your opinion. I made a mistake. I thought nano give 0 bonus to vet. It's not true. It does give 600 max health at each vet, and 600 more hp at first, 1200 at 2nd, 1800 at 3rd, 2400 at 4th, and 3k at 5th vet. That's something that won't do the shield.
Still shield is an awsome upgrade.

Now all those test are dumb, because it completlely change on the battle field.
That's why i said how can you test those feature on a sandbox. Hoping you will think a little more next time before posting.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 02 Mar 2015, 22:58

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-02T21:26:11+02:00

BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
Isn't that the same difference? The stealth is cheap so that it makes the ACU more survivable....

That i dont know.. Im trying to found another solution as excuse that is excuse, and dont fill the main problem - low max hp.
My second most popular choice is also for cybran nation.

more regeneration is only, and only because cybran have 1000less hp as aeon. Why is supost for different acu have different hp? I dont know, probably for it have not logical reason I see it only as try make more fraction diversity. So all in all cybran have less hp on acu (but also have fastest t1 main force with 92,5% speed of labs, that can fast fix previous battle mistake).

When we compare
aeon double gun 1000mass +5range as others (+15%)
uef/sera gun+t2 1520m +3000hp 20reg +T2set 14500/15000hp
cybran stealth +gun 1050 +stealt function or
cybran ++stealth + gun 1300m stealth 11500 hp

Yeah best combination is T2 + gun, that cybran cant have, but also aeon gun+ t2 is whiteout range useless combination

stealth that add more hp would allow cybran acu stay in fight longer, and would not be "paper" becuause have not 1000hp less as have aeon.

For Keyser

keyser wrote:
How can you test that in a sandbox ??????????????????

here is sandbox ->

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 02 Mar 2015, 21:26

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-02T13:32:37+02:00

Id like to see some replays of OP cybran ACU, so far Ive seen only paper ACU dying fast cause of no HP.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 02 Mar 2015, 13:32

Re: Cybran acu regen is OP

2015-03-02T13:23:17+02:00

you totaly forget the extreme slow walking speed of your acu in comparison to navy. sure its cheaper but on many maps he will just avoid your acu and you have no chance to use your advantage. there are only a few maps where torp acu can be useed effective like white fire or dark heart maybe. (maybe waters of isis as well).
basically it works just vs sera or uef if you have some destros yourself to counter coopers.

Cybran acu is still paper their low HP make it so much easier to get sniped. to make use of that higher regen you have to keep constantly fighting and kiting the enemy acu for a very long time

Statistics: Posted by Mr-Smith — 02 Mar 2015, 13:23