Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-04T10:27:38+02:00

Lionhardt wrote:
Well, it was added to the "open" pool that we currently have. I don't see new good maps making it into a small closed pool. Why? To be added maps would first need to get known to be recognized as a good map. 1v1 maps do not get known unless they are in the ladder pool -> new maps probably won't be added to a closed pool.

Regor only could establish itself by being added to the pool. Before it was in the pool hardly anybody played it.

The only maps that get popular without the pool are simplistic teamgame maps like Rush Me More, Thermo, Badlands, Wonder, Canis etc.

Not all of those are terribly bad maps, but they all are very simplistic and designed with a "heads on" kinda layout.

Yet, the GW beta from last year opened a lot of players eyes to the multitude of quality 1v1 and 2v2 maps out there. I think there is a good diversity of maps which offer a good level of gameplay and artistic quality. The only problem I see with the current ladder to date is that there have been too many maps which have had substandard gameplay or aesthetic qualities. Or which have been bugged or imbalanced in some fashion.

I think it is possible that the map pool could be reduced to say 30 maps. Provided that there is a majority agreement. This has been done in the past. But the problem is that the process of selection has been flawed. The first issue would be to correctly determine the manner in which maps are selected for rotation. The second issue would be to determine the means by which, gameplay, aesthetic quality and balance can be assured.

The first imposition I would make is that any maps selected for ladder be certified, by a panel of FAF members, to ensure gameplay, aesthetic quality and balance. I would also insist that all pool maps be rotated out on a random and even basis. Such that there is a like for like replacement. Each pool should consist of the same number of 5km, 10km, 15km and 20km maps. With the same number of land, naval and amphibious maps. The pool change out would need to be done seasonally and with notice provided in the FAF news tab. I would recommend that map rotation be done such that no map appears in two consecutive pools and that selection is done entirely randomly.

Application for a map to be certified for ladder needs to be made to the "Council of Setons", by the map maker. With approval being granted by that council, or a group of players so appointed to approve it. This approval process could include a community consultation process, if the council so wishes. But the councils decision should be final.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 04 Jan 2015, 10:27

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-04T05:21:18+02:00

Just make fun little things like that customizable, very simple, no need to discuss it to death. If you can't turn it off don't add it because you'll piss someone off

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 04 Jan 2015, 05:21

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-04T04:16:29+02:00

I just wanted to voice here that I found the christmas present surprise a very thoughtful touch, and congrats to whoever did it.
Yes on principle, nothing should be pushed unilaterally, but surprises lasting no more than a few days should get some leeway.
It was tongue in cheek, it was clever, and it was "cute". (same woud go for an april's fool joke, you don't see people send rage letters at their newspapers because they get fooled a day a year).

Yes it was distracting from the game, but nobody's livelyhood depends on their ability to play supcom at pro level between 24/12 and 5/1.

oh, and I play ladder all the time (yeah, I'm a mediorcre player so that doesn't count :p)

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 04 Jan 2015, 04:16

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-04T03:04:35+02:00

So much bitching, things might explode.

Bottom line, play Seton's. Mastering it should keep u busy long ebough

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 04 Jan 2015, 03:04

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-04T01:38:49+02:00

Tellaris wrote:
Also: Why is there voting involved? You don't need to have people vote for it. You just have one or two people choose based on a set of criteria already established.

That is all.

Already tried that. Doesn't work great either.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 04 Jan 2015, 01:38

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-04T01:37:23+02:00

Just wanted to point out... Smaller map pool I like. But people seemed to miss the line to fix the staleness of this...

YOU CHANGE THE MAP POOL MONTHLY OR BI-MONTHLY OR HOWEVER OFTEN THE HECK YOU WANT.

All in caps so people don't miss it this time.

Also: Why is there voting involved? You don't need to have people vote for it. You just have one or two people choose based on a set of criteria already established.

That is all.

Statistics: Posted by Tellaris — 04 Jan 2015, 01:37

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-04T01:23:57+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
It's the job of anyone who has the ability and desire to help. That's the point of an open source project.

If you have the ability to help, but not the desire, you can report it, then wait for it to change.

If you have the ability, but not the desire, then it doesn't happen fast enough for you and you use that as an excuse to start bitching and causing trouble when you have the ability to, you claim, fix it in seconds, you can f*** right off.

Jesus...

We've switched our jobs after you were bitching that I wasn't fast enough to push changes, remember?

Now, it's YOUR job to fix things, not mine. My role now is to bitching about you not doing your job fast enough and how crappy your code is, while I'm siting back doing nothing constructive. Tell me how much you love it.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 04 Jan 2015, 01:23

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-03T23:14:47+02:00

@IceDreamer: Please. Let's not have this escalate, talk nicely.

We'll get this tested up and implemented ASAP, until then I don't think further discussion about the ladder map pool is productive. This thread already contains a lot of valuable information.

Let's close it here.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 03 Jan 2015, 23:14

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-03T22:53:40+02:00

It's the job of anyone who has the ability and desire to help. That's the point of an open source project.

If you have the ability to help, but not the desire, you can report it, then wait for it to change.

If you have the ability, but not the desire, then it doesn't happen fast enough for you and you use that as an excuse to start bitching and causing trouble when you have the ability to, you claim, fix it in seconds, you can f*** right off.

Jesus...

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 03 Jan 2015, 22:53

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-03T22:50:51+02:00

RK4000 wrote:
Not to mention we'll find someone who will post really fancy posts about what is planned and the current progress.

FAF is seeking someone like that for several years. Good luck with that. The best did it for about 5 weeks.
I hope for you that the fact that there is council will change anything, but I have my doubts.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 03 Jan 2015, 22:50

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-03T22:48:01+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
So you didn't fix it and submit a PR so it could be done, the same way every other contributor does, because...?

Because it's not my job but yours?

I was supposed to keep things running the same way it did. That probably ended with the server switch and the multiples changes that broke FAF for the first weeks. After that, I really didn't care unless visionik asked me something.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 03 Jan 2015, 22:48

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-03T22:40:43+02:00

I'm pretty sure that once the council is set up everything planned will be way more visible and easier to find, since more people will work on more focused tasks once they know specifically what they need to do... Not to mention we'll find someone who will post really fancy posts about what is planned and the current progress. For now we're pretty much just waiting for the council to assemble.

Statistics: Posted by RK4000 — 03 Jan 2015, 22:40

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-03T22:29:45+02:00

Sheeo wrote:
Sorry, I didn't mean I put a technical explanation, if that's what you're asking for. I mean it wasn't possible within the timeframe that we got this working to get it optional as well.

I don't see how I (Or anyone else) is supposed to know there's a problem for you unless you tell us about it. You don't need to do it in a rage every time though, that would be much apreciated

Well im sure i havent seen any announcement about this mod before the patch, i also checked and couldnt find it too. Maybe it was discussed somewhere on github which is the place im not looking at cause i have zero interest doing so.

So from my point of view as a FAF player. I log in, start a game and see a mod which changes the visual part of the game. Im confused, cant tell what kind of reclime im seeing and have to get used to it again. This causes butthurt. After some days that i got used to it, it actually starts to be annoying which causes butthurt x2. And on top of that, i was unprepared for this change, no info anywhere and i get the idea that you pushed this changed alone without asking anyone? Butthurt x10.

Thats how it appears to me as a player. Im not a dev and not even looking at github so i have no idea what devs are planning...

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 03 Jan 2015, 22:29

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-03T22:26:45+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
That's actually the opposite. It takes virtually no time to fix the bug (it's really one line to change + the time to check it's changed correctly) VS redoing the whole code and changing the lobby.

So you didn't fix it and submit a PR so it could be done, the same way every other contributor does, because...?

Course if it's already been fixed on github then yeah Sheeo needs to get a move on...

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 03 Jan 2015, 22:26

Re: Let me choose the map pool

2015-01-03T22:17:34+02:00

SeraphimLeftNut wrote:
The biggest problem currently is that two players neither of whom have chosen a map, and the map is not one of the top voted maps and the map still shows up for the two players, who end up agreeing to a draw and searching again.

Well as you read, there is a bug in the code that was detected some months ago, provoking that bug. But it's not on the coders priority list to fix it. (yeah, it does sound bad when I say it like that, and it actually is).

I could have fix it, but my obligations ended the first January, and nobody told me to fix it (and I didn't had server access anymore either way).
And I was honestly thinking that with a whole new team of coders, it would be fixed in no time.

SeraphimLeftNut wrote:
I have always assumed that it would be too time consuming to fix the current system and that is why I have been suggesting the simple 15-20 map rotation until the real system is fixed.

That's actually the opposite. It takes virtually no time to fix the bug (it's really one line to change + the time to check it's changed correctly) VS redoing the whole code and changing the lobby.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 03 Jan 2015, 22:17