Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-18T09:15:57+02:00

Dojah wrote:
You can use uneven terrain to your advantage though, and enhance it with walls to a certain extent on top of that, similar to using choke points. On many maps you can put indirect fire units in very specific places, and ACU/direct fire units have to be right on top of them to hit them. Even maps that seem fairly flat like Isis have some pretty good terrain features you can use to your advantage, more so if you scout out some good places before battle in a sandbox game.

Ya I realize that the top flat part of a hill+wall can be effective versus a enemy force fighting up said hill. However, that doesn't mean that the walls work great outside of particular scenario. This is not to say that walls are useless however, they still are very effective in making artificial choke-points in maps, yet the shot-going-through-walls bug is an issue because it questions the validity of placing walls behind T1 PD. I mean, why waste time building up that wall surround when they won't even block any shots? Or are very inconsistent in doing so? I can imagine that the whole point of surrounding T1 PD in walls is because it is assumed that the walls will block the shots, yet currently this is not what we're seeing.

I think there should be a comprehensive mod that fixes the walls, an increase in hitbox height or width. Then let the community decide, cos' the wall problem is a bug. Hope people realize that.

Statistics: Posted by Goldy3 — 18 Nov 2014, 09:15

Re: Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-14T07:47:30+02:00

You can use uneven terrain to your advantage though, and enhance it with walls to a certain extent on top of that, similar to using choke points. On many maps you can put indirect fire units in very specific places, and ACU/direct fire units have to be right on top of them to hit them. Even maps that seem fairly flat like Isis have some pretty good terrain features you can use to your advantage, more so if you scout out some good places before battle in a sandbox game.

Statistics: Posted by Dojah — 14 Nov 2014, 07:47

Re: Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-14T07:14:49+02:00

da_monstr wrote:
Are you trying to make a tank bunker?

Well, thing that I like about this game is that it feels like a Sandbox RTS in the sense you get a lot of freedom and options to win. The concept of a tank bunker wasn't something that I thought of (just testing for wall effectiveness) but the fact that you could do something like a tank bunker in this game is what makes it so awesome..

Sadly, however because walls are fundamentally broken means that you can't really make a tank bunker, due to projectiles going through the walls. Yea..

Statistics: Posted by Goldy3 — 14 Nov 2014, 07:14

Re: Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-14T07:15:47+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Vee wrote:Good, because otherwise the balance would be completely broken.

Balance should never be dependant on a bug. Bugs are unpredictable. You don't want to base such a fundamental part of the game (T1 Tanks) on pure chance, which is what we have right now. Despite well over 50 hours of testing, I could never satisfactorily narrow down what cause shots to sometimes impact a wall, sometimes not, sometimes impact the WRONG wall etc.

If I can fix this bug, I will try my utmost to get that fix into the main code. Then, once we actually have control over how things behave, the community can decide if it wants walls to block shots, not block shots, block some shots, or whatever we want. If they want walls to behave as they do now, so be it, that could then be arrange. The point is we have control over it.

I agree. I don't think bugs should be in games nor encouraged either.

Statistics: Posted by Goldy3 — 14 Nov 2014, 07:09

Re: Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-13T17:30:14+02:00

Vee wrote:
Good, because otherwise the balance would be completely broken.

Balance should never be dependant on a bug. Bugs are unpredictable. You don't want to base such a fundamental part of the game (T1 Tanks) on pure chance, which is what we have right now. Despite well over 50 hours of testing, I could never satisfactorily narrow down what cause shots to sometimes impact a wall, sometimes not, sometimes impact the WRONG wall etc.

If I can fix this bug, I will try my utmost to get that fix into the main code. Then, once we actually have control over how things behave, the community can decide if it wants walls to block shots, not block shots, block some shots, or whatever we want. If they want walls to behave as they do now, so be it, that could then be arrange. The point is we have control over it.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 13 Nov 2014, 17:30

Re: Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-13T16:57:14+02:00

Good, because otherwise the balance would be completely broken.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 13 Nov 2014, 16:57

Re: Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-13T09:20:51+02:00

Are you trying to make a tank bunker?

Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 13 Nov 2014, 09:20

Re: Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-13T08:25:25+02:00

It's been a problem forever mate. Something is fundamentally wrong with the hit detection, and it's been known for a while that shots pass right through the collision box much of the time. I've tried several times in the past to fix the issue or make progress to no avail

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 13 Nov 2014, 08:25

Okay, walls are completely broken..

2014-11-12T20:28:06+02:00

So here's a test for you. on Theta, nice flat map for testing. Purpose of the test is to see how effective walls are. Artillery is ignored in the test for obvious reasons.

1. Make a "[" shaped wall, not a "[]" closed off wall.

2. Place the low-profile (I.E small, flat hitbox) UEF T1 Tank, behind the "[" shaped wall.

3. Notice how logically, objectively, mathematically. That for all intent and purposes, that the wall should protect the UEF 1 Tank from all direct-attacks from it's tiered equivalent, even direct arc attacks from other T1's.

4. Make a mock battle between the walled UEF T1 Tank and another UEF T1 Tank on the offensive.

5. With the "Wall Fix mod" it works somewhat only when shots fired directly on the center part of the wall. however, once the offensive UEF T1 Tank moves, it's shots go right through the hitbox of the walls. With the Wall Fix mod taken off however, regardless, the shots will go right through the walls at the T1 Tanks max range even if the shots hit directly at the center of the wall model. However, when brought closer to the walled UEF Tank, the shots do hit the walls.

6. Conclusion: While more testing can be done, It's my belief that walls are fundamentally broken. Their hitboxes are very inconsistent with some shots being absorbed by the wall and some shots going straight through the wall even if it's clear that the projectile hit the wall..Their hit boxes don't work even in optimal conditions.

7 Recommend: It seems you can get around the broken nature of walls by making 2 layers of walls surrounding "[[]]", instead of the the traditional 1 layer of wall surrounding "[]"In my mock battle, the 2 layered walled UEF tank held off against 10 T1 Tanks from nearly 180 degree angles without taking any damage thanks to the 2 layered solution. Recommend that 2 wall layered from now on when it comes to T1 PD.

Statistics: Posted by Goldy3 — 12 Nov 2014, 20:28