Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Limiting the Map Pool = More noobs

2014-10-25T17:10:31+02:00

jetpack wrote:
Whenever I start a 1v1 Ladder match, and that loading screen is up, I get a little thrill; I have NO IDEA who I will be facing, or where it will be. I for one enjoy the strange maps. I played Cluster Freak recently - I pulled off my first T2 Air snipe. Also played the Ditch - And learned first hand what a telemazor is. In the face.
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Statistics: Posted by Cuddles — 25 Oct 2014, 17:10

Re: Limiting the Map Pool = More noobs

2014-10-25T15:21:44+02:00

I'd like to have an opinion from the top 20 players out there.

Do you guys feel that the meta game or the play style of the different maps was evolving more or less with the old map pool system? (regardless of balance changes)

If it was evolving, was it possible to transpose the evolution of the meta game in the new maps when a map rotation occurred.

Is the map randomness anyway related to the desertion of the ladder by the top players?

And now a few suggestions to (possibly) improve upon the system.

-Give it some preferences : every 3 months make a few maps more likely to be picked.

-Give the possibility to choose the maximum map size or even better, since the statistics of the game played are available, we can see what average time (and dispertion) a game takes on each map. It is even possible to see how it relates to the average rank of the players involved. So it could be possible to make a selection based upon maximum average game time (20 - 40 - 60 min).

-Give every player the possibility to select a limited number of maps (maybe 10) to never play.

Statistics: Posted by pittlebelge — 25 Oct 2014, 15:21

Re: Limiting the Map Pool = More noobs

2014-10-25T11:25:52+02:00

Yes, people are confusing "Playing well" with "feeling like they are playing well" IMO

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 25 Oct 2014, 11:25

Re: Limiting the Map Pool = More noobs

2014-10-25T11:20:28+02:00

Being "good" is always relative. If certain maps wouldn't be played at all, then a good player wouldn't be expected to know how to play these maps. If blackops suddenly became the main gamemode of ladder, then a "good" player would refer to a good blackops player. If ladder consisted of only 5x5 maps then a "good" player would be a player who is good at 5x5 maps.
A lot of people deceive themselves into thinking a good player should be able to defeat a worse player in any new situation, any new map etc. This is a completely unrealistic expectation. Some maps have completely different gameplay than others and there's only so far you can go mechanics wise. A good example of this would be Moonshine where anyone could train a little bit on that map and beat any "pro" player.

There is no "overall" better gameplay, there's just the same level of gameplay divided into a larger array of things. With a smaller map pool we can assume that the efforts of players on learning the game become more focused and the level of gameplay will rise.

If you want to be good you need to define what good means. Good right now is different than good in the future. Good right now means good in the current circumstances, good in the future means good in the circumstances we face in the future. If we change these circumstances into something more enjoyable then we will not care if someone is "good" in the old, less enjoyable circumstances, but rather we will expect "good" players to succeed in the current circumstances.

It is up to the community to decide what kind of maps they want to play when they search ladder. If the maps are changed, you will no longer need to learn the removed maps, therefore it won't "make improving more difficult", because becoming better in those maps isn't considered improvement in this context anymore!

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 25 Oct 2014, 11:20

Re: Limiting the Map Pool = More noobs

2014-10-25T01:52:44+02:00

Yes and no...
I mean w/ less maps every one will be better on those maps, but if they know how to play on those maps they can focus on the mechanics, this way he will be able to balance the eco, microing, etc

at the other side they will focus the mechanics of those maps only.

probably the best way to go would be: put less maps, and let he get the basic, then put a bit more maps...

Statistics: Posted by Gerfand — 25 Oct 2014, 01:52

Re: Limiting the Map Pool = More noobs

2014-10-23T17:43:03+02:00

I agree with you.. but for most of the maps it's a case of faction bias for example paradise.. if you don't play as aeon or sera and you go against an aeon or sera you are screwed because of floaty floaty stuffs.. bare that in mind

I liked the Ditch and if people complained about the amount of reclaim on it they should be complaining about Daroza's Sanctuary aswell.. I also like the scar.. these maps are being removed on the grounds of "Take too long to play and can lead too 1 hour long games" which is a stupid reason to take them out imo.. but the masses are FOR removing them and the democracy means that unfortunately these people get listened too..

The main thing we need to do is ADD maps too the pool that are good .. So please recommend some.

OMFG we really need more 1v1 maps for ladder.

Statistics: Posted by Kalvirox — 23 Oct 2014, 17:43

Re: Limiting the Map Pool = More noobs

2014-10-23T17:07:21+02:00

Completely agree.

As a noob i find it extremely difficult to manage large echo maps (like badlands) or large maps (like serephine glaciers) but the only way to get better is play more. Its better to learn against players with similar ranks as they will be just as bad.

But crazyrush (the automatic mex generator) should be removed. Its just stupid.

Statistics: Posted by rosh3000 — 23 Oct 2014, 17:07

Limiting the Map Pool = More noobs

2014-10-23T16:22:33+02:00

I see the process is under way to remove the strange maps from the ladder pool. I've also seen discussion to limit the map pool for new players. Please don't do this.

Bad players become good players by being put in difficult situations. If you limit the map pool you will make improving that much more difficult.

Whenever I start a 1v1 Ladder match, and that loading screen is up, I get a little thrill; I have NO IDEA who I will be facing, or where it will be. I for one enjoy the strange maps. I played Cluster Freak recently - I pulled off my first T2 Air snipe. Also played the Ditch - And learned first hand what a telemazor is. In the face.

If anything, divide up the maps by difficulty, a "Suggested Skill Level" or somesuch. That way, a noob can select them all and throw himself if in the fire if he so wishes. Experts can leave in the strange maps. But the the choice still remains.

Limited the map pool by ladder is solving a problem that doesn't exist. Removing the maps that are strange is unnecessary if you use the "Suggested Skill Levels." As for the unbalanced maps, I leave that to those with more wisdom than I.

Statistics: Posted by jetpack — 23 Oct 2014, 16:22