Forged Alliance Forever

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T17:56:55+02:00

This thread isn't constructive anymore. I will close it now. Visionik will create a new thread about this topic in one or two days.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 12 Dec 2014, 17:56

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T17:28:42+02:00

Aulex wrote:
Anaryl's rating: 1337

Ironyyyyy.

No seriously Anaryl, provide some replays of someone with UEF/Cybran beating someone competnetly using Sera/Aeon on Four Corners. That wouldn't even prove the map is balanced, but it would at least make you look like you had a vague idea what you were talking about as top 50 player after top 50 player tells you you're wrong.

Statistics: Posted by Sir Prize — 12 Dec 2014, 17:28

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T17:16:01+02:00

Right so Mozartt tells me to f*** myself - that post is fine. But my response to Hawkei gets deleted.

Whatever. Think what you want.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 12 Dec 2014, 17:16

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T16:55:59+02:00

There is no point in arguing, if he wants to stick with his strategy he can keep losing. For people who are reading this and not sure who to trust
1v1 ladder rating of those who disagree:
Mad-Mozart : 1959
Vee : 1861
Gorton: 1836
Aulex : 1740
Keyser: 1650
All of us top 50 players except for keyser who is probably much better than his ladder rating.

Anaryl's rating: 1337
Anaryl who is ranked 197

I'm sure those who are in question can figure out who to trust here.

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 12 Dec 2014, 16:55

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T15:25:53+02:00

Agree!

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 12 Dec 2014, 15:25

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T15:23:10+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
Ah .. see I was on the verge of answering this until I saw this. I really have better things to do.

To the rest of you, make up your mind - answer you or find the replay - I have things I could be doing other than getting insulted.

edit: forget it.

Ok, let me be clear just this once in case you or anyone else got problems with it.

You started a discussion and getting replies from people. Seems that they are making sense and have confidence in what they say, also they are competent and experienced players whose opinion can be trusted. You argue with these multiple people alone trying to prove they are all wrong. Well, that is sort of ok, but how you do it? You make a point, they make a nice and constructive counter point anticipating you answer in same manner - you dodge and call their words bullshit. This continues for several times. While getting a detailed step-by-step analysys you call it assumption and disregard it whereas making your own (not even close) attempt to predict how the game will go is totally valid and not an assumption for you. Basically every time people speaking from their experience played on that map you either change topic / disregard / ignore / call it bullshit. And when asked for replay to actually support and prove your point of view - you dodge it again and then go full arrogant "be nice to me and ill think about it".

Well, this is just laughable. Dont expect for someone to be nice and not insult you. People were nice to you (inb4 you gonna need this clarification - im not talking about myself here) untill you pulled on your egocentric hat on and started to shove them off like they dont know shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMi_fA__dXI
Here is a good song for you to listen while you go and think about your behavior.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 12 Dec 2014, 15:23

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T15:43:40+02:00

Hi Anaryl you often make good contributions but in this case I simply must disagree with your points. There is no matchup more difficult than UEF vs. Sera, or UEF vs. Aeon on a 5x5km or 10x10km amphibious map. Bar none!

The problem is that T1 bombers, even when they aren't shot down, have a low combat effectiveness against T1 hover units when they are mobile, dispersed and properly controlled. They also require total air dominance to operate effectively. Are non-viable if the enemy should send interceptor top cover, and are hard countered by hovering flak (which you will note, both Aeon and Sera have).

T1 Frigates and T2 Destroyers can provide adequate surface fire to fend the hover units off. But it takes a long time to get enough of them. Riptides require a heavy early investment in a T2 land factory, and are also a high expense unit which can only be in one place at one time (and also need to be in groups of 2 or 3 to be effective). T2 PD are effective, but will put the UEF player on a defensive posture (aka. they are a loosing strategy).

The most viable and dynamic opening for UEF vs. Sera on these maps is Interceptor + LAB + Transport. Because Ghetto's are the only viable T1 UEF air to ground capability for dealing with Aurora or Fobo spam. Not to mention that the dropped Mech Marines are a natural counter to mobile artillery. I will often leave a large defensive force of LAB to fend off the Fobo spam and drop them on the enemy island to punish him if he doesn't build tanks.

The dropped Mech Marines are not nearly effective vs. Aurora so in the UEF vs. Aeon matchup they have a limited utility as Ghetto's. This matchup requires a much faster Naval, T2 Land or T2 Air transition.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 12 Dec 2014, 15:16

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T15:13:05+02:00

Wow, that's one of the clearest pot/kettle cases I've seen on this forum. Pretty sure that I would break someone's jaw if they say that 'anyone' would break my jaw (and no, this is just an example).

You have a rather aggressive personality (or you're trying to make us believe that).

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 12 Dec 2014, 15:13

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T14:50:46+02:00

we should just ignore guys like that. saying bs all the way.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 12 Dec 2014, 14:50

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T14:48:42+02:00

Vee wrote:
So you are saying it's hard to build 1 hover unit to each side, and 2 hover units to go with the acu? WTF. This is absolutely not comparable to "just" balancing your eco. It's trivial to build 1 hover unit to each side and 2 hover units to go with your acu. Anybody can do it.

I'm not under any obligation to participate in this discussion so I'd appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent me. You know exactly what I meant by this.

I'm starting to get the idea that you have no clue how to play those maps ...

Ah .. see I was on the verge of answering this until I saw this. I really have better things to do.

To the rest of you, make up your mind - answer you or find the replay - I have things I could be doing other than getting insulted.

edit: forget it.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 12 Dec 2014, 14:48

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T14:46:06+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
Ask nicer and I will have a look for the one that sticks in my mind.

Anaryl, can you please go f*** yourself provide us some replays?
Or else, everything you are saying is just a pile of assumptions and cant be taken as a valid basis for your points. In other words, all your talk is shit

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 12 Dec 2014, 14:46

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T14:46:46+02:00

So you are saying it's hard to build 1 hover unit to each side, and 2 hover units to go with the acu? WTF. This is absolutely not comparable to "just" balancing your eco. It's trivial to build 1 hover unit to each side and 2 hover units to go with your acu. Anybody can do it.

You say they may get killed by bombers, and that's totally in your advantage too: if he kills your hover unit with a bomber, it means that he didn't kill an engi with his bomber. In fact that's one of the reasons to make the hover units in the first place: to force him to spend resources to counter it, which are vastly bigger than the resources you spent to make the hover unit, and it means that he cannot spend those same resources for doing damage to your in other ways. Meanwhile, sera/aeon bombers are also stronger than cybran/uef bombers. The advantage is again firmly on sera/aeon side.

Putting your acu in front of your naval fac is a really bad idea. (1) the thing that kills your navy fac is the enemy acu who is reclaiming it, not the auroras (2) if you don't use your acu offensively it's 100% lose.

I'm starting to get the idea that you don't know the right strategy for those maps ... in another post you talk about playing "conservatively" with developing your eco and sending your acu to the side and so forth. Playing defensively is really really bad. It's like rushing t3 mex on theta. Maybe the reason that you don't get a free win despite playing aeon is that you are using the wrong strategy?

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 12 Dec 2014, 14:42

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T14:36:57+02:00

Mad`Mozart wrote:
Anaryl wrote:You're asking me this on patch day? I have them but not much use right now are they

Yep im asking you this on a patch day.
So far all the replays i watched from previous versions worked fine for me except for the replays like 1 year old or so. But it was like that with previous patch too so it doesnt matter.

And now, give the damn replays already. Enough dodging.

Ask nicer and I will have a look for the one that sticks in my mind.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 12 Dec 2014, 14:36

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T14:36:11+02:00

The key is to not overdo hoverspam. If you just hoverspam you may lose against navy or air. The thing is that building a few hover units is almost no investment, because what else can you build from your factory? You could build more engies but you really don't need them. So you can just copy what he is doing + do a few hover units. If he goes air, you make air. If he goes navy, you make navy. So just play 4 corners / paradise as if you were cybran/uef, except make a handful of hover units which will win you the game.

Rushing jester is really not a good plan at all. Against enemy second air it's instant lose. Aeon/sera can just make 1 bomber + 1 intie for the same price/time as a jester and bomb everything AND kill the jester. If you want to make a jester you should probably first try to win air and then maybe make a jester, but by that time your enemy has already reclaimed most of the sides.

You are right in the key is not to overdo it - get the balance right. That's valid - but it's also like saying "Don't waste mass, don't float too much E" - it's not always something that we do perfectly. Even though many of us know not to waste mass we still do it from time to time.

The other issue with what you are saying is that if you are only using 1 or 2 hover units then they become extremely vulnerable to bombers. The second issue is - you don't know if it's going to be bomber or jester, or maybe he rushes navy hard with assist- maybe he puts acu in a blocking position ahead of his factory so as to reclaim auroras heading (relative) north to the NavFact. The issue is - as soon as you start assuming what he will do with out the intel - you're increasing risk.

well then answer what we are saying.

There is nothing so nauseatingly twee,
as people who misuse the word 'we'.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 12 Dec 2014, 14:36

Re: POLL: List of maps to remove or fix from the ladder

2014-12-12T14:32:54+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
You're asking me this on patch day? I have them but not much use right now are they

Yep im asking you this on a patch day.
So far all the replays i watched from previous versions worked fine for me except for the replays like 1 year old or so. But it was like that with previous patch too so it doesnt matter.

And now, give the damn replays already. Enough dodging.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 12 Dec 2014, 14:32