Forged Alliance Forever

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-16T18:33:09+02:00

I mentioned adding a simple text letting you know how much mass a wreck or rock contains. Helps people who don't know a map that well or which rock is the 'right' one to reclaim in your BO. The response I received however mentioned that this would be unfair in the fact it would give you information outside of your line of sight. That is, you would know when someone went for the reclaim without the need for radar or scouting.

P.S. is this possible as just a UI mod? May give some people an advantage without us knowing.

Statistics: Posted by rockoe10 — 16 Sep 2014, 18:33

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-15T19:45:19+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Sheeo if you can upload fixes for anything you see as a problem here, please do. For example, I really think rebuild bonus should scale with wreck HP. Should also have a word with RK4000 to see how easy it would be to, for example, make wrecks turn slightly transparent as they near the end of their mass reserves. Also, 0 HP wreck should = 0 resources, so just make sure of that.

While maybe possible, I don't like that idea a lot. Would prefer being able to view exact mass values.

Making the rebuild bonus scale with wreck HP/mass is easy, but I don't know why it isn't already like that. Maybe it's intentional? If anyone has an idea/reasoning it would be good to know

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 15 Sep 2014, 19:45

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-15T18:43:06+02:00

Sheeo if you can upload fixes for anything you see as a problem here, please do. For example, I really think rebuild bonus should scale with wreck HP. Should also have a word with RK4000 to see how easy it would be to, for example, make wrecks turn slightly transparent as they near the end of their mass reserves. Also, 0 HP wreck should = 0 resources, so just make sure of that.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 15 Sep 2014, 18:43

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-15T16:25:48+02:00

I don't see the problem of leaving this in, as a balance thing, either.

But really we do need the mass value text

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 15 Sep 2014, 16:25

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-15T14:30:03+02:00

I agree with Poch, this is a feature TML is strong enough as it is.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 15 Sep 2014, 14:30

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-15T14:06:26+02:00

_VODKA_ wrote:
But if it's a seperate value, it could be intentional. To allow you to not massively stall eco after losing your mexes.

It's kind of esoteric that it works like that, though.

It'd be fine if there were some way to know how much mass is in a wreck (a cool addition that we need), so you could make an informed decision whether to rebuild or reclaim (This goes for anything), but you cannot as it stands.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 15 Sep 2014, 14:06

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-15T13:29:53+02:00

But if it's a seperate value, it could be intentional. To allow you to not massively stall eco after losing your mexes.

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 15 Sep 2014, 13:29

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-15T13:00:29+02:00

Okay so I took at look at the code.

The current behavior is:

If a unit is overkilled with strictly more than the HP, no wreck is left. I.e. if:

Code:: overkillRatio = damageDealt / unitHealth > 1.0

The wreckage health has nothing to do with overkill, and is fully decided by two blueprint values: Defense.Health and Wreckage.HealthMult, the latter defaulting to 1.

Reclaim values are set using the formula:

Code:: mass = (mass - (mass * (overkillRatio or 1))) * self:GetFractionComplete() energy = (energy - (energy * (overkillRatio or 1))) * self:GetFractionComplete() time = time - (time * (overkillRatio or 1))

The rebuild bonus is what's acting up, defaulting to 50% also when mass is 0, which it shouldn't. This won't be an issue when having no wreck, which I think is the right thing.

It's quite simple to do really, just change the code that spawns wreck to only do it when overkillratio is < 1, that is, not when it's = 1.

Another weird thing is collision with the left wreck, it appears to not get hit by non-splash weapons. I tested: no damage from harbinger groundfiring, but full damage (and wreck was destroyed) from stratbomber and another TML.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 15 Sep 2014, 13:00

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-14T19:23:49+02:00

Makes mexes have 5,999 HP if you want to fix this maybe ? I suppose 0 HP or 0,000001 HP both means the wreck/unit is still there if it has to go negative.

I dont know if this should be changed tho, as fast TML ACU can be a little op on some map (due to TMD build time, engy travel time and little missile build time on acu), being able to rebuild at 50% helps a bit.

Statistics: Posted by Poch — 14 Sep 2014, 19:23

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-14T19:29:13+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
This is a problem. The wreck has 0 HP (I think because of the way the numbers are calculated, I'll have to talk to Sheeo), which means it gives 0 Mass on reclaim, but still the 50% rebuild bonus. This is wrong...

not exactly like that
here is example:
t1 aa has 800 hp
percy shoots it with his 1600 dmg projectile
wreck still exists,
you would assume that wreck has 0 hp
if you try to reclaim wreck it gives 0 mass
but if you try to damage it it will not die, i even tryed to kill it with UEF mml (400 damage per missile) and as far as i remember it takes more than 2 missiles to kill wreck
so something is pretty weird here, not just 0 hp wreck

also if not reclaimed wreck, no matter how much you damaged it, if you try rebuild it will be 50%

i do not remember very well, but i did another test, i choose emmisary, and tryed to do the same with t3 mass fab
6k hp vs 12k damage
but it didn't work same way, wreck dissapeared
and i do not think it is related to mass fab explosion, but to the fact that emmisary gives damage over time 6000+6000...
maybe that can be hint to make "dirty fix" for that problem, but i do not really think there is much of a problem

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 14 Sep 2014, 19:23

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-14T18:23:14+02:00

The wrecks have HP. Or at least they used to, so until it's been changed...

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 14 Sep 2014, 18:23

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-14T17:45:31+02:00

This is a problem. The wreck has 0 HP (I think because of the way the numbers are calculated, I'll have to talk to Sheeo), which means it gives 0 Mass on reclaim, but still the 50% rebuild bonus. This is wrong...

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 14 Sep 2014, 17:45

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-12T20:02:26+02:00

You can have units with zero HP, can't you? I read somewhere once that units have to be brought below zero hp to be destroyed. I don't see how this is any different, even after those other threads. Seems like a part of the game, not a bug.

I also don't see how it's a problem. For as long as I've been on this forum, people have always said, "If you rebuild instead of reclaiming, you're stupid, because it's ALWAYS better to reclaim." It makes me happy for someone else to point out how that's wrong. After all, it makes more sense to be better of rebuilding if you want to rebuild, than reclaiming and starting over from the beginning. Much more intuitive.

What I want to know though, is according to the unit db, a T2 mex wreck has 2700hp, not 3000. If that's the case, I don't understand how you're left with a wreck in the first place.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 12 Sep 2014, 20:02

Re: TML vs Mex

2014-09-12T19:20:27+02:00

i do not think anything was changed

1rst of all TML should overkill t2 mex and leave no wreck, but it leaves 0 mass wreck (6000 dmg missile, 3000 hp mex and 3000 hp wreck, i am not sure that it is exactly so, cause wreck still has some hp for some reason)

damage on wreck does not affect rebuilding -> always rebuild from 50%
reclaiming wreck can affect rebuilding so if you reclaim it a bit you get 0% to 49% building, not sure how exactly it works

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6510 - also here i was already reporting that
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6314 - and here

ZLO_RD wrote:
Cool, hope it will work, I came here to suggest make TML damage over time 3000 every 0.1 xD, it would fix stuff at least for t2 mex

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 12 Sep 2014, 19:20

TML vs Mex

2014-09-12T18:28:51+02:00

I've done some testing and I found out that T2 mex killed by TML won't give any reclaim, but if you try to rebuild it with T2 engie, 50% is free. Tested with TML from every faction, even ACU TML, on mexes of all factions.
I always tought its giving reclaim so best way how to recover is to reclaim it and build T1 mex and upgrade, but now with no reclaim from it...

Is this a bug or was it changed? I thought its giving reclaim.

(also tested without any mods, and same results for rk explosions)

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 12 Sep 2014, 18:28