Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-28T19:09:22+02:00

@Typo91: The sera and aeon one have 1.5 aoe just like static sam, and the uef and sera one has 1 aoe.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 28 Aug 2014, 19:09

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-28T17:32:58+02:00

Typo91 wrote:
Someone told me the T3 Seraphin mobile AA can hit ground also, so that true? doesn't it shoot lighting bolts?

I have seen this. I havent paid much attention to the actual amount of damage it does, but I have seen it strike land units with lighting.

Statistics: Posted by Stin — 28 Aug 2014, 17:32

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-27T14:57:20+02:00

i have not really tested yet...

Does the mobile t3 AA have AoE? i noticed they cost the same as a SAM site.

Also for the numbers, all SAM sites fire off 1,200 damage per volley. (333.33dps) so the magic number to stop a bomber cold is 4. as all bombers at t3 have at least 3700 hp or more.

And Seraphin have the best by far, because they have fire like guns and not slow missiles.

Someone told me the T3 Seraphin mobile AA can hit ground also, so that true? doesn't it shoot lighting bolts?

Statistics: Posted by Typo91 — 27 Aug 2014, 14:57

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-27T14:44:24+02:00

Using ASF to counter strat bombers is not exactly a particularly unique solution.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 27 Aug 2014, 14:44

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-27T02:29:05+02:00

When one factors in Shields, spacing apart of T3 AA (Just three in a rough line A - B - C along the flight path will kill 10 Bombers most times thanks to clumping), T1/T2 AA contribution, splash damage, stray Interceptors, one realises that in fact T3 AA are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Strategic Bombers, especially with the newly buffed (Read: Working as intended) shields which don't let a single Stratbomber do 20,000 Damage per bomb.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 27 Aug 2014, 02:29

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-26T21:52:51+02:00

keyser wrote:
you have shield for your static T3 aa and T3 MAA.

tips : solace can 1 shoot cruiser (pretty effective imo). But mobile shield/shield boat render solace completelly useless.
(btw, oh snap' cybran don't have mobile shield)
i think you should include shield into your test. AA without shield not as usefull, shield without aa only give you time, shield + aa very effective.

Technically, you don't even need a shield. It's dependent on what the Strat bomber is targeting.

If the Strat bomber is targeting T3 S-AA, then yes shield up.

If the Strat bomber is targeting something behind the T3 S-AA. Then you don't need to shield up. I'll probably do some tests later on T3 S-AA and spacing towards defending valuable assets without needing shields.

Statistics: Posted by Goldy3 — 26 Aug 2014, 21:52

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-26T21:46:33+02:00

galacticfear wrote:
And yes you are correct if all 8 strat bombers are perfectly spaced out of splash radius (unlikely), and you are then not considering the fact all 16 will target lead strat and so many other variables that make 1v1 battles completely unscalable to larger battles. And most importantly the strats will never be targetting the t3 aa.

Yes, technically that is correct. However, it is rare to have a scenario where Air is 'perfectly' stacked. They'll always be some lagging behind.

I've done a test with four T3 S-AA with (optimum number to taking out Strats in one salvo) with a single shield versus 8 strats. The results were pretty erratic.

Sometimes, only 1 Strat would survive a single salvo.
Sometimes, only 3 Strats would survive a single salvo.
Sometimes, only 4 Strats would survive a single salvo.

It's ultimately dependent on the Air spacing/stacking. Like you said. But, the math is there and available. It's up to the player to manipulate the math properly in the practicum.

Statistics: Posted by Goldy3 — 26 Aug 2014, 21:46

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-26T20:50:46+02:00

Goldy3 wrote:
galacticfear wrote:And then you factor in the fact t3 aa has splash and in larger numbers all of this theory falls apart. However the idea of the t3 aa being useless vs asf but not vs bombers would solve a lot of issues. But I don't think that is possible.

I believe my theory is sound. If eight Strat Bombers are coming, you'd need 16 T3 S-AA to take them out effectively. And I didn't say T3 S-AA should be useless against ASF..

Goldy3 wrote:
Because ASF is no threat to ground targets so I don't understand why T3 Mobile AA would be designed to take out ASFs

And yes you are correct if all 8 strat bombers are perfectly spaced out of splash radius (unlikely), and you are then not considering the fact all 16 will target lead strat and so many other variables that make 1v1 battles completely unscalable to larger battles. And most importantly the strats will never be targetting the t3 aa.

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 26 Aug 2014, 20:50

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-26T20:31:27+02:00

galacticfear wrote:
And then you factor in the fact t3 aa has splash and in larger numbers all of this theory falls apart. However the idea of the t3 aa being useless vs asf but not vs bombers would solve a lot of issues. But I don't think that is possible.

I believe my theory is sound. If eight Strat Bombers are coming, you'd need 16 T3 S-AA to take them out effectively. And I didn't say T3 S-AA should be useless against ASF..

Statistics: Posted by Goldy3 — 26 Aug 2014, 20:31

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-26T14:08:47+02:00

you have shield for your static T3 aa and T3 MAA.

tips : solace can 1 shoot cruiser (pretty effective imo). But mobile shield/shield boat render solace completelly useless.
(btw, oh snap' cybran don't have mobile shield)
i think you should include shield into your test. AA without shield not as usefull, shield without aa only give you time, shield + aa very effective.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 26 Aug 2014, 14:08

Re: Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-26T13:52:36+02:00

And then you factor in the fact t3 aa has splash and in larger numbers all of this theory falls apart. However the idea of the t3 aa being useless vs asf but not vs bombers would solve a lot of issues. But I don't think that is possible.

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 26 Aug 2014, 13:52

Inspired by T3 Mobile AA Debate. Facts on Static AA.

2014-08-26T08:06:15+02:00

T3 Mobile AA sounds like a swell idea. So much for debate! However, I've decided to look at some figures concerning S(Static) AA. Here's what I've come up with.

Random Facts!: It takes 4 salvos from a single T3 S-AA to kill a single T3 Strat Bomber. Therefore, building two S-AA is desired as it will stop the Strat Bomber from dropping another, second bomb. Where as building only having one T3 S-AA will allow the T3 Strat Bomber two total bombing runs before death.

It takes (Optimized damage) two T3 Strat Bombers to take out a single T3 S-AA and have both(two) T3 Strat Bombers survive!

So in conclusion. The Ratio for Defence> 1 T3 S-AA for every one T3 Strat bomber, Or assuming wanting to stop the second bombing run. 2 T3 S-AA for every one T3 Strat Bomber.

The Ratio for Offense> 2 T3 Strat Bombers for every one T3 S-AA. Or assuming wanting to take out take out one T3 S-AA in a single bombing run. 3 Strat Bombers for every one T3 S-AA.

Random Factsx2!: All T3 Bombers seem to have a bombing range of nearly 60(Give or take). Meaning, they'll drop their bombs at the same time as T3 S-AA is firing!.

Stupid Facts!: "How much damage does a single T3 Strat do to a single T3 S-AA before it dies?"

Aeon has the Best T3 Bomber in terms of Damage. (Left T3 S-AA with only 100 hp before Bomber death) Meaning, can easily use T1 to mop up!

Seph has the Second Best T3 Bomber in terms of Damage. (Left T3 S-AA with only 498 hp before Bomber death) Meaning, can use T1 to mop up kind of.

UEF has the Third Worst T3 Bomber in terms of Damage. (Left T3 S-AA with only 996 hp before Bomber death) Meaning, might need to get some T2 units.

Cybran has the Dead Last T3 Bomber in terms of Damage. (Left T3 S-AA with a whooping 1500 hp left before Bomber death) You need some T2 to finish the S-AA off.

Note* Since it is theoretically impossible for a single T3 Strat Bomber to take out a single T3 S-AA it is Highly recommended that after the first bombing run upon the T3 S-AA (Assuming the player would want to do that). that the T3 Strat Bomber return to base immediately, repair and then continue bombing T3 S-AA (Assuming that the T3 S-AA isn't repaired). "Captain Obvious AWAYYYYY!"

Note** "Why didn't you include ASF statistics?" Because ASF is no threat to ground targets so I don't understand why T3 Mobile AA would be designed to take out ASFs and Strat Bombers, when it should've been designed for Gunships as well as Strat Bombers. Why is the ASF player even in enemy territory anyway? ASF is a pre-emptive/defensive beast. It shouldn't be flying over there in the first place. And since the ASF shouldn't be in enemy territory, it leaves the question of the point of a T3 Mobile AA when the ASF isn't even going to be near whatever ground force that the T3 Mobile AA is attached to. It makes more logical sense to design the T3 Mobile AA around being effective against Gunships and Bombers, not ASFs. My 2 cents.

Note*** If you want to stop the Strat Bomber from releasing it's first initial bomb, one of two things need to happen.

1) Build AA on the front line where the bomber is most likely to come. Not at the base.

2) ASF.

Thanks for reading

Statistics: Posted by Goldy3 — 26 Aug 2014, 08:06