Forged Alliance Forever

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-06T03:42:42+02:00

Bugfix correcting that has finally been created. It is going in this patch. We need to wait for this patch to finish testing before we decide anything about beam weapons.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 06 Sep 2014, 03:42

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-06T03:16:13+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
Reduced dps is to account for the fact sera destroyers never miss

Sure they do. Beam weapons miss all the time.

Statistics: Posted by RedX — 06 Sep 2014, 03:16

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-05T15:55:46+02:00

your opponent is going for harm creep and you try to denied it with your destro. (on white fire for exemple)
i don't feel like it's a strange situation imo

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 05 Sep 2014, 15:55

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-04T23:07:03+02:00

Also if you have a big number advantage, then something can be a good engagement regardless of unit types. For example if you have rhinos vs brick, it's usually a bad fight but if you have a lot of rhinos vs 1 brick it's still a good engagement. Same for destro vs harms

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 04 Sep 2014, 23:07

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-03T18:46:05+02:00

-_V_- wrote:
Vee wrote:Now somebody needs to test if they work vs HARMs.

Who's dumb enough to go close combat against harms with destros ?

maybe you just want to rush in and kill antinuke/nuke, t3 power/mass fab, acu

there is almost always a situation where you would do something strange cause situation is weird, or very critical, or on the edge between win or loss (like turnin off mexes to have extra power for OC or upgraide finishing)

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 03 Sep 2014, 18:46

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-03T15:36:33+02:00

Vee wrote:
Now somebody needs to test if they work vs HARMs.

Who's dumb enough to go close combat against harms with destros ?

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 03 Sep 2014, 15:36

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-03T12:42:15+02:00

Reduced dps is to account for the fact sera destroyers never miss

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 03 Sep 2014, 12:42

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-03T12:07:30+02:00

Now somebody needs to test if they work vs HARMs.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 03 Sep 2014, 12:07

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-03T03:49:37+02:00

keyser wrote:
Vee wrote:FYI, aeon destro depth charges only work vs subs, and vs submerged sera destros. They do not target surface ships.

thank Vee for teaching me thing on faf every day

I didn't know that until unpwnable ripped my asshole apart in aeolus for making that mistake

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 03 Sep 2014, 03:49

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-02T23:38:57+02:00

Vee wrote:
FYI, aeon destro depth charges only work vs subs, and vs submerged sera destros. They do not target surface ships.

thank Vee for teaching me thing on faf every day

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 02 Sep 2014, 23:38

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-02T19:56:24+02:00

JeeVeS wrote:
While I commend your enthusiasm for trying to rebut my assertion, all of your examples are either false or irrelevant.

Well thanks! I don't get to play as much as many others on this client and have no coding skills, so enthusiasm is my primary resource. You're absolutely right though, there are so many balance changes it's hard to keep up sometimes. (And that air comment - wtf was I talking about? I shouldn't be posting at 4am.)

I've been playing this game since 2007 though, so experience will only get me so far...

About this though:

JeeVeS wrote:
Torpedo launchers are buildings. Are you really contending that every faction should be able to reduce sera to torpedo launcher creeping should they so choose?

Lame was talking about this being a problem for Seraphim versus Cybran on small water maps like White Fire. So no, I don't think that every faction should be able to, but I don't think every faction is able to in the first place, or even Cybran most of the time. If one particular faction/map matchup leads to some torpedo launcher creeping, I don't think that's necessarily bad. It's not like they have no options at all.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 02 Sep 2014, 19:56

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-01T11:36:19+02:00

FYI, aeon destro depth charges only work vs subs, and vs submerged sera destros. They do not target surface ships.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 01 Sep 2014, 11:36

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-09-01T11:30:14+02:00

My biggest problem with the Sera destroyer? It's crew is incompetent and getting stuck at the factory.

The only solution is to submerge and wiggle them out. Or space your factories apart.

Statistics: Posted by Col_Walter_Kurtz — 01 Sep 2014, 11:30

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-08-31T19:49:37+02:00

This is from a more 1 vs 1 and smaller team game perspective, not Setons. My opinion on sera navy

First of all, the shitty t1 sub is bullshit. The fact that in 1 vs 1 games sera sub loses to other sub 95% of the time is broken. There, I said it. Moving on....

I remember testing t3 vs t2 cybran subs. Given enough room to kite (which is alot), its split almost down the middle. Either one t3 sub lives or 1-2 t2 subs. This is for 9 vs 3 or 18 vs 6. This does not even take into account the cost of getting t3 navy. The fact that you can get 8 t2 subs out by the time sera has its first 1 t3 sub out is just amazing. If Sera DOES NOT have room to kite, t2 subs just massacre t3 subs at any numbers. The only time t3 subs have an advantage is at stupid high numbers when path finding becomes an issue. But at that point, the game is either in stupid late stages where HARMS or other options are viable, or the game is pretty much decided.

However most games dont just develop like that, because people dont usually make t3 navy without t1-t2 nacy first... so.

I also tested t2 destroyers vs subs, and found they do quite well. 1 destroyer(NOT UEF) beats 2 subs. Its because of the massive HP they have. at higher numbers where sub clumping and focus fire is a factor, the game has either evolved past the stage of t2 vs t2, or one side already has an advantage.

I think t2 sera destroyers are fine. They have a completely underrated ability to SUBMERGE. This gives them great flexibility and use in combat. Fighting UEF vs SERA is so hard at the t2 stage. If enemy has too many destroyers/frigates, just submerge and win. If they overspam coopers, surface and destroy them in 5 seconds. Its really simple. At the start on most maps (other then setons) UEF has problems because they need a perfect unit mix to beat sera, while sera can just make one unit. 1st destroyer vs 1st destroyer, sera wins every time. Just submerge.
Fighting vs cybran would be the hardest. Stealth, kiting, and good anti sub makes them difficult. Vs aeon, dont let them CLOSE the distance(for their torps and depth charges), or stay at maximun range(for kiting). All you need to do is micro. 1 vs 1 you will win again. Its only in really large groups that you lose. By that time the game is either past that t2 stage, or one side has a massive advantage

From a 1 vs 1 perspective, Sera is amazing. Most of the games come down to the really really early battles where its 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 destroyers. The ease of micro and the ability to have a submersible unit will give you a early advantage, which usually leads to massive reclaim or forcing your enemy out of the pond. This coupled with floating flak, early t1 hover arty harassment(which forces out frigates to defend while you make t2 navy/subs) really gives sera an early advantage, where on most maps, its easy to capitalize and keep going. IMO sera only loses this advantage for t2 navy at the stage when the game is slow, and both sides mass navy. (usually larger maps) But by then, sera usually makes t3 subs. These work well in a large mixed sera navy, with destroyers to tank. Just having t3 subs alone (unless stupidly high numbers) they can get overrun quite easily by t2 subs.

These are all just my opinions, take them as you will. Im not saying im right, Im not looking for arguments. This is just my view from a 1 vs 1 perspective

Statistics: Posted by Tex — 31 Aug 2014, 19:49

Re: The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

2014-08-31T02:56:54+02:00

A rear gun damage buff would change very little unless it was significant. See, while it would be doing more damage, in order to change the number of salvos needed to kill enemy ships you have to give it a significant boost. The first appropriate point is an increase of 40 damage, not much, but it only helps vs UEF. To help vs Cybran you need much, much more.

If we accept that they need a buff at all (I don't) I'd do it by increasing their LOS to be equal to that of T2 Sub range, buff the Torpedoes by 5%, and nerf Cybran's Destroyer Torpedoes by about 5%. That's where I'd begin.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 31 Aug 2014, 02:56