Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-20T02:58:44+02:00

I'm not much of a player in terms of skill, but I thought I'd throw a few cents in just to say I like the look and aesthetics of the T3 mobile AA. I also like that the Cybran version gets to switch between ground and air capabilities. I'm not sure how much they add even at mid level games. The trouble with them is that it's really more sensible to have a good squad of ASFs due to their more practical response times, so you shouldn't cut back on ASF production regardless.

Bombers hit your units at least once before being shot down, so the T3 mobile AA is really best for chasing off gunships or to support the ASFs. They also help to kill flying experimentals, I suppose.

No idea what they're like balance-wise - they didn't seem to be must-haves like mobile flak - but they're pretty anyway! I haven't been able to tell how they work yet, either. Seems like they have an AOE, but I really just expected them to be like basic mobile SAMs and have that be all she wrote.

Statistics: Posted by Flamingo — 20 Aug 2014, 02:58

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-19T17:01:04+02:00

I made some test of T3 AA and I think I find bug

CZAR dont get veterancy when kill cyb T3 AA - I tested it few times same result

with other T3 AA no problem

dont know where to post it so...

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 19 Aug 2014, 17:01

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-14T21:46:25+02:00

E8400-CV wrote:
Escadin wrote:Fun observation: UEF T3 AA can fire while being transported with continentals.

And hit?

When you are dealing with swarms from both sides then is a miracle if you miss

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 14 Aug 2014, 21:46

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-14T20:18:38+02:00

Nombringer wrote:
galacticfear wrote:I just read through the entire thread. Highly amusing.

You lasted the entire thing?

Impressive.

Yeah I think that had something to do with losing all my brain cells half way through.

P.S. guaranteed*

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 14 Aug 2014, 20:18

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-14T16:08:55+02:00

Escadin wrote:
Fun observation: UEF T3 AA can fire while being transported with continentals.

And hit?

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 14 Aug 2014, 16:08

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-14T12:25:27+02:00

galacticfear wrote:
I just read through the entire thread. Highly amusing.

You lasted the entire thing?

Impressive.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 14 Aug 2014, 12:25

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-14T12:19:53+02:00

Fun observation: UEF T3 AA can fire while being transported with continentals.

Statistics: Posted by Escadin — 14 Aug 2014, 12:19

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-12T17:15:18+02:00

I just read through the entire thread. Highly amusing.

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 12 Aug 2014, 17:15

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-12T06:11:33+02:00

[quote="E8400-CV"]I've played some games with the T3 mobile AA appearing now.

I think the graphics from the projectiles are *somewhat* overblown.
[/quote]

I agree totally with this, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one.

Without getting into the discussion about balance at all, the units' visuals are also a playability factor.

I feel that it is important to remember that, as they go up quite a distance vertically as well as moving horizontally, AA projectiles cover a lot more space than ground to ground projectiles. They also block your view of land/sea units in ways that others do not. I've played games with the Cougar where my screen is so covered in crisscrossing orange lines that it can be annoying to see clearly what's happening on the ground.

If we look at most existing AA projectiles, they're typically quite understated. AA guns are simple colored lines, SAMs are little more than small black dots and a puff of smoke. Even flak, huge airborne explosions, is not so bright and dense as to block the view of what is happening below. (The Seraphim are a noteworthy exception to this, and a telling one. Their AA projectiles are almost uniformly the kind of overblown things we want to avoid. Even the T1 AA has obnoxiously large and bright projectiles.)

Obviously when making a new unit you want it to be cool, but these are support units, not center pieces. They don't need flashy gimmicks like the bouncer's laser, they just need to look appropriate and not be ugly/poorly done. The units themselves look fine, so let's not try to draw attention to them in game with their projectiles. The whole point is that they're supposed to he bringing focus back to [i]other[\i] land units, right?

Not a big problem, but something to think about.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 12 Aug 2014, 06:11

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-12T00:06:16+02:00

I love how everyone reads the first line of my post and then starts proving me wrong, even though the quantifiers that I add in the next few lines show that I actually agree with you.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 12 Aug 2014, 00:06

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-11T11:05:24+02:00

After playing around a bit I have also come to the conclusion that a little bit more range would not hurt, since T3 aircraft are so fast.

Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 11 Aug 2014, 11:05

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-11T10:56:40+02:00

I've done one final test: for experimentals vs AA. I've used the same formation every time for the flak, and the same (bit looser) formation for the T3 AA. The fact that the Ahwassa wins in both cases isn't surprising, because that unit was designed for destroying an entire army in one sweep.

100 Flak + 10 Shields vs SR: 80 Flak, 7 Shields remain
18 T3 AA + 10 Shields vs SR: draw

100 Flak + 10 Shields vs CZAR: 90 Flak, 1 Shield remain, 50% destroyed by CZAR crash
18 T3 AA + 10 Shields vs CZAR: 9 T3 AA, 3 Shields remain, CZAR crash destroyes two units

100 Flak + 10 Shields vs Ahwassa: Ahwassa wins
18 T3 AA + 10 Shields vs Ahwassa: Ahwassa wins (damaged)

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 11 Aug 2014, 10:56

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-10T22:26:41+02:00

BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
This is exactly how all the tech levels work..... in raw HP and Damage, mass for mass t1 is better than t2, and t2 better than t3, and t3 better than t4.

Ok. I thought t3 better than everything EXP better than t1/t2.

1 Brick beats 5 Rhino or 25 Mantis in a small test i made and even if it's not moved/microed.

A harbinger is even more mass efficient, against lower tears.

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 10 Aug 2014, 22:26

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-10T22:18:12+02:00

BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
This is exactly how all the tech levels work..... in raw HP and Damage, mass for mass t1 is better than t2, and t2 better than t3, and t3 better than t4.

Incorrect. I have proven categorically in the past that, for land at least, the vast majority of matchups between the main battle 'Tanks' favour the higher tech level. T2 vs T1 favours T2 by roughly 20% and T3 vs T2 favours T3 by an enormous margin. This is brought about by the relationship between tech level and range; while it may be true that mass for mass T1 may defeat T2 if all the T1 can fire at once and immediately, it is also true that range renders a fair fight impossible under any circumstances.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 10 Aug 2014, 22:18

Re: Thoughts on the new T3 AA

2014-08-10T21:43:53+02:00

This is exactly how all the tech levels work..... in raw HP and Damage, mass for mass t1 is better than t2, and t2 better than t3, and t3 better than t4.

You increase the tech levels because it #1 concentrates your mass cost from your higher production in the later game and #2 prevents you from hitting your unit cap.

As an added bonus, higher tech levels have higher effective damage vs single targets because due to the limits of range, 20 t3 units can hit a single target that pathfinding would prevent 100 units from firing upon effectively.

This is a common rule that plays out over the whole of this game, and it should apply to the AA as well.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 10 Aug 2014, 21:43