Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2014-07-07T18:01:02+02:00 /feed.php?f=2&t=7907 2014-07-07T18:01:02+02:00 2014-07-07T18:01:02+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76780#p76780 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>

Since you said I can provide the final answer, here it is:

"
Sorry everyone, I've been on vacation for a few days and was unable to check the forums during that time. I have seen the thread and checked the death damages. Yes, I admit that I have made a simple mistake with the death damage values. Now that that's cleared up, here's why:

When I made the custom experimental explosions I thought that the single death damage being dealt at the start didn't fit with the subsequent explosions happening on the unit. So, I decided to space it out along the subsequent explosions, so it would fit more, but I did NOT intentionally increase the total damage being dealt.

If I recall correctly, I've pre-defined 3 types of damage to be done during the subsequent explosions in the blueprint and then from there I call it with the unit's .lua script: small, medium, and large explosion death damage. Now, I thought I fine tuned that to amount to the same total damage as the normal death explosion. But then when I added or removed certain subsequent explosions during the development process, I probably forgot to re-calculate the total damage at one point (I had to do this for each subsequent explosion removed or added), so it ended up being more.

As far as other comments go:


Is adding goofy effects to the game really a primary concern of the community? What about fixing all the connection and desync issues, expanding the player base, tightening balance or improving hardware lag? There's a lot of gifted people here that would like to make faf better. I feel like your talents might be better utilized in other areas.

I don't see the allure of rks_explosions. I want to know what it is people like (or dislike) about the mod.
In particular, do you really find the normal explosions inadequate? Do you feel that this is a more relevant concern than the aforementioned problem areas of FA? Do you really find these added effects aesthetically pleasing and if so, how old are you?




Well, I am only a 1500-1600 rated player. I do not have nearly enough experience nor knowledge to healthily contribute to the game's balance. I also do not know enough to contribute something more than what has already been worked (and IS being worked) on as far as the other issues go (desync/conn issues, and I actually don't know what you mean by "hardware lag", if you mean CPU utilization (sim speed optimizations) we can't do a lot there without the source code.).

So I decided to simply work on something that I am both decently good at and that doesn't require deep game mechanics knowledge or anything like that. I personally found the default explosions quite bland and unappealing, so I decided to work on this mod. As it was said, it is still a MOD. Nobody forces anyone to play with it, I simply made the mod for myself and others who think the game is lacking in the visual aspect. And yes, I also did this to increase the playerbase, one aspect that was also mentioned. I cannot say for sure whether more people like it than dislike it, but one of the MAIN reasons I started work on this is to make the game look more appealing in casts. And casts, I think I can safely say, are bringing the most people into this. So yes, I am indirectly working on that aswell.

As for the other flame arguments: Sheeo has only been (actively) working on the mod for a few weeks, and the visual changes to the experimental deaths have been done before that, so he had nothing to do with this cock-up. It is entirely my fault that it has slipped by, and I apologize, but I do ask for at least some tolerance for error. This was up to this point a one-man job and in just a few months 95% of FA's unit deaths have been changed. It is quite a lot of work so it is entirely possible for tiny mistakes like this to slip by. You might consider it a big mistake, but trust me when I say (and modders will back me up on this), compared to the amount of other things that could (and did, during the development, luckily I caught most of them) go wrong, this is pretty small.

That being said, this mod is still in development and is only about 40% done in acheiving what I want with it. Most of the effects you see could pretty much be considered placeholders.

So, to summarize, I would like to, first of all, thank the person who spotted this, and it will be fixed in the next version. I would also like a bit more tolerance towards not just me, but all modders, when tiny mistakes like this happen. They happened, are still happening, and will happen with every mod, and even major game patch! Even FAF patches sometimes had bugs or errors that required a hotfix, so it is, if I may say so, unrealistic to expect a spotless development cycle for anything, be it a (featured) mod, (community) patch or even an AAA game.

And second of all, yes, we are working on a way to make the explosions optional. But due to the way particle emission works in FA this is really difficult, if not impossible. Particle emission is simulated aswell, so you are technically changing the simulation if you emit for one person and not for the other. But nevertheless, we are working on finding, if all else fails, a work-around. Not all hope is lost :D

And third of all, thanks to everyone for the support for the mod, and yes, even to people that spot mistakes like this and don't like the mod. Your feedback is, in turn, making the mod better. Even if you don't like the mod, that's fine. The feedback from people that don't really like in it's current form it is actually better most of the time. You don't need to use it, but I'm always open to suggestions as to how to change them to better suit a wider audience, even people that do not like them right now. A lot of people that didn't like the previous versions actually like the current version... As long as it's not a flame war, many things can be achieved. :)
"

That's it. Quite lengthy but it needs to be to correctly answer all the fuss that came from this. Thanks for letting me post an answer to this.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 07 Jul 2014, 18:01


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2014-06-26T00:11:20+02:00 2014-06-26T00:11:20+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76093#p76093 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]> Statistics: Posted by Legion Darrath — 26 Jun 2014, 00:11


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2014-06-25T18:21:06+02:00 2014-06-25T18:21:06+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76073#p76073 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
RK4000, if you wish to post an answer to this, PM me and I will copy paste it to the end of the thread where everyone can see.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 25 Jun 2014, 18:21


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2014-06-25T17:35:26+02:00 2014-06-25T17:35:26+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76072#p76072 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
JeeVeS wrote:
What exactly is BS and where is the arrogance? If the statement "RK has repeatedly stated he changes nothing in terms of unit stats." is true and "...some large unit death statistics are being altered." is true, than explain to me how "...RK has repeatedly lied to you" isn't also true. It turns out his intent doesn't effect the validity of my statement.


Your statement is BS, and it's arrogant to call someone a liar when you don't even want to spend those 30 seconds making a replay.

RK lying would require the change to be intentional, and you have absolutely no idea of that--infact you're being told the opposite in this thread by several people.

JeeVeS wrote:
Aren't you a contributor to this mod? Overlooking the question of how you've remained oblivious to a unit's death damage going up four-fold, are you telling me you can't boot up the game and ctrl-k a megalith next to something? Sorry to break it to you: I'm not here to hold your hand. "Proove" it to yourself.


Yes I am. I cannot do this right now, but a replay would speed up the process significantly when I'm able to do so. I'm not here to hold your hand either. Also as other people have told you, if you don't like the mod, don't use it.

We're working on making the explosions optional, so one client would see the explosions but another wouldn't. This is however a bit of a ways off.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 25 Jun 2014, 17:35


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2014-06-25T17:17:41+02:00 2014-06-25T17:17:41+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76071#p76071 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
Sheeo wrote:
That's BS. Any changes to damage values aren't intentional.

Please proove it yourself (With a replay) instead of posting an arrogant comment like this.

What exactly is BS and where is the arrogance? If the statement "RK has repeatedly stated he changes nothing in terms of unit stats." is true and "...some large unit death statistics are being altered." is true, than explain to me how "...RK has repeatedly lied to you" isn't also true. It turns out his intent doesn't effect the validity of my statement.

Aren't you a contributor to this mod? Overlooking the question of how you've remained oblivious to a unit's death damage going up four-fold, are you telling me you can't boot up the game and ctrl-k a megalith next to something? Sorry to break it to you: I'm not here to hold your hand. "Proove" it to yourself.

Statistics: Posted by JeeVeS — 25 Jun 2014, 17:17


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2014-06-25T16:42:22+02:00 2014-06-25T16:42:22+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76069#p76069 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
I believe that modders do what they do because they want to, because its fun and entertaining, and for probably many other reason, but most essentially, they that they do it for themselve (and yes, doing things for others can be a rewarding experience for oneself). As a result, I think was modders do and want to do, and what concerns the community is not necessary related.
I believe that if there is something in FAF that I think should be addressed, I should either try to address the problem myself, asking for help if I need to, or state what I think should be addressed and hope someone who can do it will do it.

JeeVeS wrote:
Then it appears RK has repeatedly lied to you.


Also, I think that is downright rude, most likely it's a bug that went unoticed.

Statistics: Posted by Paul Kauphart — 25 Jun 2014, 16:42


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2014-06-25T17:08:45+02:00 2014-06-25T16:17:42+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76065#p76065 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
JeeVeS wrote:
Then it appears RK has repeatedly lied to you. Anyone who doubts what I'm saying, start a sandbox and spend 30 seconds verifying it.


That's BS. Any changes to damage values aren't intentional.

Please prove it yourself (With a replay) instead of posting an arrogant comment like this.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 25 Jun 2014, 16:17


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2014-06-25T16:11:23+02:00 2014-06-25T16:11:23+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76064#p76064 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]> Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 25 Jun 2014, 16:11


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2014-06-25T16:06:10+02:00 2014-06-25T16:06:10+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76063#p76063 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
As for why I like it? Well, some of it, I don't really like, or think is about the same as normal. However, some of the explosions are absolutely beautiful in my opinion, bring a whole new epic feel. The GC explosion, for example, and the UEF Battleship as well as many more. The V7 aircraft explosions are going to look amazing too :)

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 25 Jun 2014, 16:06


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2014-06-25T15:06:31+02:00 2014-06-25T15:06:31+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76061#p76061 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]> Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 25 Jun 2014, 15:06


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2014-06-25T15:01:53+02:00 2014-06-25T15:01:53+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76060#p76060 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
I don't see the allure of rks_explosions. I want to know what it is people like (or dislike) about the mod.
In particular, do you really find the normal explosions inadequate? Do you feel that this is a more relevant concern than the aforementioned problem areas of FA? Do you really find these added effects aesthetically pleasing and if so, how old are you?

Firemessiah, why don't you reread the part of my post that you quoted. The game's "standard form" would obviously be from the developer before being modified by FAF. Also, "...what THQ was thinking" is clearly the past tense. Thus, the implication must be along the lines of me thinking THQ made questionable decisions while making the game. Your statement in the present tense ("THQ wont think anything about it, as they are no longer publishers of FA...") both belabors the obvious and is utterly irrelevant.
da_monstr wrote:
RK has repeatedly stated he changes nothing in terms of unit stats. All changes are purely cosmetic.
Then it appears RK has repeatedly lied to you. Anyone who doubts what I'm saying, start a sandbox and spend 30 seconds verifying it.


Mozart sees where I'm coming from. I have faith that there are more.

Statistics: Posted by JeeVeS — 25 Jun 2014, 15:01


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2014-06-25T14:55:27+02:00 2014-06-25T14:55:27+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76059#p76059 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]> Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 25 Jun 2014, 14:55


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2014-06-25T14:48:46+02:00 2014-06-25T14:48:46+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76058#p76058 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
JeeVeS wrote:
Personally, I don't find a single one of the explosion effects to be more attractive than those of the standard game. The majority of them look like out-of-place sprite effects that were ripped off from a Game Boy Advance game like Golden Sun. I'm running maxed out settings on 1080p with 8xAA and bloom on. At no point in time have the normal death explosions struck me as inadequate or requiring attention. However, if the game incorporated rks mod explosions in its standard form, I would find myself wondering what THQ was thinking. Am I the only one that thinks bright green blobs and cheap-looking clouds of flame contradict the normal style of the game?

Totally agree, i thought i was alone thinking that those explosions are looking out of place :roll:

Also people, dont give this bullshit like "dont like it, dont use it". Have nothing against this statement, but in reality many players host their games with this mod and if you want to join and play such game you have to use the mod :?

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 25 Jun 2014, 14:48


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2014-06-25T14:12:10+02:00 2014-06-25T14:12:10+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76057#p76057 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
JeeVeS wrote:
However, if the game incorporated rks mod explosions in its standard form, I would find myself wondering what THQ was thinking.

THQ wont think anything about it, as they are no longer publishers of FA.
All work and improvements to Forged Alliance are made by the FAF community, in the form of mods and patches.

Also, the developer of this mod is a FAF player named RK4000. He's always open to advice, suggestions and criticism about ways to improve his "personal project"
Further to Zep's reply, you can host your own game without the mod, if you don't enjoy joining other games which have the mod running.

Paul Kauphart wrote:
I thought this mod was purely cosmetic, please rks, can you confirm ?
Finally, i'll back-up ZeP on that, it's a mod, using it is a matter of choice, and I don't thinks there is ever a plan of making it mainstream. And if there was, it would probably involve putting that to a vote.

I believe Experimental explosions do have small bursts of damage as they explode affecting objects close by, I don't know the values however.
I do not think rks mod is being considered for mainstream integration as it currently has compatibility issues with other mods.

My thoughts, its a nice mod, and many people are enjoying it currently, as shown by the number of games running the mod.
But remember guys, its a beta, many things will change and be improved over its development.
I agree that if wrecks are being affected, that's a kink to iron out ;)

Statistics: Posted by FireMessiah — 25 Jun 2014, 14:12


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2014-06-25T14:12:11+02:00 2014-06-25T13:59:14+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7907&p=76055#p76055 <![CDATA[Re: Thoughts on rks_explosions mod]]>
However, this interrogates me :

JeeVeS wrote:
Most importantly, some large unit death statistics are being altered. For example, a megalith dying currently does over 33000 damage in total, up from 7500. Fatboy is quite similar. Much of this damage is being done to the wrecks as well, lowering the reclaim value of these units by several thousand mass.


I thought this mod was purely cosmetic, please rks, can you confirm ?

Finally, i'll back-up ZeP on that, it's a mod, using it is a matter of choice, and I don't thinks there is ever a plan of making it mainstream. And if there was, it would probably involve putting that to a vote.


PS : Since we're discussing choices, I also think it's peoples choices to decide how they want to improve the game through modding. If tomorrow rks wants to make a mod than make explosions throw out clouds of pink and purple flowers, that would be his choice, I would probably think "that's a stupid idea, I love it" and back him up, and it would be my choice. Making it mainstream would be another matter altogether, where everybody's opinion should be taken into account.

Conclusion :
1) Don't like it ? Don't use it, don't bother with it.
2) Like it ? Think it could be improved ? Test it, suggest area of improvements and make constructive critisisms.


PPS : thanks for pointing out that death damage thing, if it happens to be true.

Statistics: Posted by Paul Kauphart — 25 Jun 2014, 13:59


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