Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-03T03:37:10+02:00

Hmm ok well that makes sense. I had thought you meant getting the game-lobby to generate, you meant the faf-lobby.

So that will work but I can't do all that work in qt/python/whatever. However I could do an online image generator on my own c# website (which would also be the interactive tool i spoke of earlier) and then someone else could add the lobby code to download the image into the right place.

Would you accept that?

Where would it be displayed? I think an extra image preview in the ingame-lobby would be nice.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 03 Oct 2014, 03:37

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-02T10:11:28+02:00

partytime wrote:
- how to make an image at runtime

Runtime of?

You can make just before the game start (when it check if you have the map or not, it can check if the preview is there).

partytime wrote:
- how to gain access to the heightmap given that the map isn't loaded yet. can you even get the heightmap data after map loaded?

You don't. The lobby can generate it before launching FA.

partytime wrote:
- i don't think the blueprints are loaded yet (needed to know mass values of wrecks/trees)

Same, no need to load them in FA. The lobby can do it.

partytime wrote:
Aside from that it might be pretty slow.

partytime wrote:
Main reason I dislike putting in the zip is because I think we would want to enhance it over time and that would require downloading all maps again.

Exactly.

partytime wrote:
Or I guess it couuuld be a tool that people download to enhance their own map files. Hmm that might work actually...?

If it's integrated to the lobby, no need to download anything, will be automatic.

partytime wrote:
Is it possible for the lobby to download the image? Then the server could generate it, it could be cached, enhanced, etc. That would probably be even better.

That is possible too. But it's not trivial to generate all the previews for the whole vault.
Some maps won't parse, ....

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 02 Oct 2014, 10:11

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-02T08:41:59+02:00

Doing it in-game would be super cool because we could do live reclaim heatmap.

However I still dont know how to actually do that, and I'm almost sure that you can't incorporate it into the minimap (cant change the data passed to shader).

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 02 Oct 2014, 08:41

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-02T08:33:02+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
They are other ways than including them in the zip file. For example, generating and displaying them in the lobby itself.

Well that would be great, but I'm no expert but I don't think you can do that?

- how to make an image at runtime
- how to gain access to the heightmap given that the map isn't loaded yet. can you even get the heightmap data after map loaded?
- i don't think the blueprints are loaded yet (needed to know mass values of wrecks/trees)

Aside from that it might be pretty slow.

Main reason I dislike putting in the zip is because I think we would want to enhance it over time and that would require downloading all maps again. Or I guess it couuuld be a tool that people download to enhance their own map files. Hmm that might work actually...?

Is it possible for the lobby to download the image? Then the server could generate it, it could be cached, enhanced, etc. That would probably be even better.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 02 Oct 2014, 08:33

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-02T07:29:57+02:00

partytime wrote:
98% sure it's not possible to get my image in the minimap ui anyway. Would be interesting to hear from anyone who has thoughts on that. So all that leaves is the possibility to include it in the lobby. Oh but you don't like the zip thing so there goes that.

They are other ways than including them in the zip file. For example, generating and displaying them in the lobby itself.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 02 Oct 2014, 07:29

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-02T02:33:09+02:00

Give me a few days then

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 02 Oct 2014, 02:33

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-02T01:33:48+02:00

Do you really want the code? I can publish it, but it's all tied together with many other things - eg: my code that dumps all unit blueprints to xls. Or if you just want to see the drawing code I can pastebin it for you.

YES I want that Code how you make these awesome Images from maps.
May I can automatize this and provide it as a online project with "manual upload / vault mapID" Functions (like replayparser)

Statistics: Posted by Frozen_byte — 02 Oct 2014, 01:33

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-01T05:48:33+02:00

Vee wrote:
maybe find a clearer way to display the amount of reclaim.

Hi Vee, so I think I tried that logic and decided darkred-to-brightred was better, but I'm open to change, this is alpha quality so far. Perhaps size should be a factor as well. I think though that at the end of the day it's going to be very very hard to draw everything so it's clear in a small image. That's why it needs to be interactive ...

In an interactive version you can turn layers on and off (eg: hide reclaim), and therefore you can make those layers more prominent (big reclaim). The other thing about an interactive version is you would be able to zoom, so individual wrecks become clearer. Also, you could select an area of the map (by drawing a polygon) and it could tell you how much reclaim was in that area. Finally you could save your polygons and make them public, so everyone else can see the maps segmented and not have to repeat all of your work.

Do you really want the code? I can publish it, but it's all tied together with many other things - eg: my code that dumps all unit blueprints to xls. Or if you just want to see the drawing code I can pastebin it for you.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 01 Oct 2014, 05:48

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-10-01T04:23:48+02:00

Zep:

98% sure it's not possible to get my image in the minimap ui anyway. Would be interesting to hear from anyone who has thoughts on that. So all that leaves is the possibility to include it in the lobby. Oh but you don't like the zip thing so there goes that.

Really don't see why I am required to fix minimap bugs to contribute an improvement to the lobby. Aside from that, Duck fixed the cartographic minimap for all maps ages ago. viewtopic.php?f=53&t=7618

Given the technical and social challenges of getting this in the actual game, I decided long ago to just do my own thing and make a standalone tool, probably a web page. It would be interactive too which would be useful. However that takes a long time to do and I have other projects going on in the meantime.

I would prefer it to go in game but I literally cannot do it without help.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 01 Oct 2014, 04:23

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-09-24T19:44:24+02:00

Just wanted to add my voice to those saying keep up the good work! This is a fantastic idea... I particularly love the way it shows the wrecks on the map. Playing with new players or people seeing the map for the first time it's such a huge advantage to know where the reclaim is. Displaying just how much mass reclaim is in the field is fantastic as well. Would love this to be in the lobby. To the extent it can be clearer about what the big wrecks are, that'd be awesome.

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 24 Sep 2014, 19:44

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-09-24T14:59:04+02:00

Vee wrote:
One suggestion: maybe find a clearer way to display the amount of reclaim. The shades of red are not that visible. Maybe do it with transparency

maybe better use bigger pixels for bigger wrecks, or use both types of diffirentiation

btw can you zoom in to that map? (or just bigger resolution version) compared with diffirentiation (transparecy or other way) will make great view on map

For example - map last oasis, it has two types of small rocks, one give little reclaim, and one gives decent amount, if you could see difference on map it would be epic (difference between 10 and 40).

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 24 Sep 2014, 14:59

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-09-24T15:01:19+02:00

Wow this is great!! I hope this gets implemented.

One suggestion: maybe find a clearer way to display the amount of reclaim. The shades of red are not that visible. Maybe do it with transparency: totally transparent is 0 reclaim, and then the higher the value the less transparent. Then that brings your eye immediately to the spots with most reclaim. It also works nicely for multiple reclaim on 1 pixel: you just draw multiple half transparent pixels on each other, so it automatically adds up. Is the code that generates this available somewhere?

To achieve what I suggest you compute the total reclaim value under a pixel, then use something like the following formula to compute the transparency of the red:

Code:: transparency = 255*(1 - 0.9^(reclaimvalue/100))

This will make the pixel 10% less transparent for each 100 reclaim.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 24 Sep 2014, 14:14

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-09-24T12:27:07+02:00

i find it pretty usefull... now i know that on reservoir top spot has shorter path to sea
and i didn't know about side paths on slepnir...

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 24 Sep 2014, 12:27

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-09-24T11:45:50+02:00

Ditto

Statistics: Posted by rockoe10 — 24 Sep 2014, 11:45

Re: Strategic Preview

2014-09-24T11:28:40+02:00

Hi,
I'm a learning map maker, this preview would help me a lot to place reclaim, when you are making amap you lack this global vision of reclaim position.

Don't give up on this.

Statistics: Posted by Krapougnak — 24 Sep 2014, 11:28