Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-23T23:00:36+02:00

Reaper Zwei wrote:
I'm curious what people consider a cheese strat and why. I personally think everything is fair game. The object of the game is to kill the enemy ACU but, I know some people don't do certain strats even though they could because they consider it cheesy. I also doubt that I know all the strats that people consider cheesy. For example I won a game just now on high noon as UEF with 3 riptides and my ACU in 6 min. 34 sec.(against someone of similar rating) Is that cheesy?

Makign engineering stations, sharing them out to allies, then:
Getting them to assist rush an experimenta
Getting them to assist rush both stealth and weapon upgrades for a Cybran ACU.

Statistics: Posted by Herbert — 23 Jun 2014, 23:00

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-21T12:17:46+02:00

D3matt wrote:
prodromos wrote:The most entertaining cheese is to condition your opponent into thinking he/she should build X, while he/she should actually build Y. Put into x or y any units-weapon and you get some very interesting strategies . But you must act convincingly enough to succeed. The catalyst is the distraction. Now, if your opponent is very good and vigilant this would be very difficult to achieve but very rewarding nonetheless.

My most favorite is actually a very difficult one, to manage to build your weapon in your opponent's backyard and unleash it when hs/she expects it the least. Almost impossible, but it always leaves you with a big smile on your face.
Managed that once on setons with an early drop of T1 engies, built a factory, teched to T2 and build stealth and TMLs before he got a radar up in range. The sheer surprise of having the back player suddenly vanish was incredibly satisfying.

I've done somewhat the same to two of my friends, on Drakes ravine. I went to the opposite side with an air transport that hat 6 T1 engies. Captured the T2 Power Generator (essentially pointless because you can more easily reclaim it and build a new one instead - Capturing costs a lot of energy that you don't have when getting a T2 Pgen is still useful), built a factory, upgraded it to T2, built a T2 stealth base.

When I had 2 GCs and a bunch of TML launchers, I attacked. Eventually I lost the GCs to restorers that were still quite strong, but flak+shields defended the base.

The thing is that using any other strategy would've worked as well I think, but the obvious advantage here was that they wouldn't have seen the GCs coming from all the way through the ravine.

Again, Sheppard's point is still very valid, this was a strategy that worked to to lack of scouting by my opponents. Just send a couple of air scouts over your entire section of the map to see if someone's doing something sneaky. If they are doing that, they'll most likely have no defence because that's just a waste of time and mass - if they can pull it off. And they can't if you properly scout.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 21 Jun 2014, 12:17

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-21T09:27:21+02:00

prodromos wrote:
The most entertaining cheese is to condition your opponent into thinking he/she should build X, while he/she should actually build Y. Put into x or y any units-weapon and you get some very interesting strategies . But you must act convincingly enough to succeed. The catalyst is the distraction. Now, if your opponent is very good and vigilant this would be very difficult to achieve but very rewarding nonetheless.

My most favorite is actually a very difficult one, to manage to build your weapon in your opponent's backyard and unleash it when hs/she expects it the least. Almost impossible, but it always leaves you with a big smile on your face.

Managed that once on setons with an early drop of T1 engies, built a factory, teched to T2 and build stealth and TMLs before he got a radar up in range. The sheer surprise of having the back player suddenly vanish was incredibly satisfying.

Statistics: Posted by RedX — 21 Jun 2014, 09:27

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-20T01:46:05+02:00

The most entertaining cheese is to condition your opponent into thinking he/she should build X, while he/she should actually build Y. Put into x or y any units-weapon and you get some very interesting strategies . But you must act convincingly enough to succeed. The catalyst is the distraction. Now, if your opponent is very good and vigilant this would be very difficult to achieve but very rewarding nonetheless.

My most favorite is actually a very difficult one, to manage to build your weapon in your opponent's backyard and unleash it when hs/she expects it the least. Almost impossible, but it always leaves you with a big smile on your face.

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 20 Jun 2014, 01:46

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-10T12:12:47+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
For me real cheese is not simply sniping somebody because of a lack of scouting. It's doing something that, despite your enemy sees it has no completely obvious counter, so if you see it for the first time, you die. The more often you see it, the easier you can counter it.

Nice description of cheese tactics. The term strategy is used often where it should be tactic. Strategy is something more long term / more general planning. So an ACU drop or jester spam is tactical but the decision to put more or less resources in one area of a map could be a strategic decision. Or the decision to play more or less risky at the beginning because you know your opponent is stronger or weaker than you in later stages of a game. Or things like to always put a tmd in your base in every game. Always do something in every game under very general conditions.

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 10 Jun 2014, 12:12

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-10T11:54:15+02:00

I agree with sheppard, and also I'd consider cheese unexpected things that would (easily) fail if your opponent really scouted : using eots as an example, instead of sending commander down the sides, sending it through the water to the enemy base. If your opponent pays attention he notices no acu -> pd in his base and you're screwed. If not, you wreak some havoc.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 10 Jun 2014, 11:54

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-10T11:31:33+02:00

For me real cheese is not simply sniping somebody because of a lack of scouting. It's doing something that, despite your enemy sees it has no completely obvious counter, so if you see it for the first time, you die. The more often you see it, the easier you can counter it.

For instance, running to enemy base and transporting out with T2 air (this is not going to work anymore because everybody has seen it already). Many people, including good players like Napalm, saw that coming, but simply had no idea how to deal with it.

So the amount of cheese tactics is actually pretty low let's see:

- T2 Air on theta
- 19 LABs Commanderpush on Sentry
- Jesterspam (i'll count this to cheese yes)
- Fobospam on maps like etos

I cant really think of much more.

ZLO_RD wrote:
Hiding your units/buildings is not cheese

yup that's sneaky not cheese

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 10 Jun 2014, 11:31

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-10T02:53:59+02:00

I'd say the mass fab+air factory thing is a great example of a cheesy strategy.

I have another two that I've used on occasion to consider:

First, if you die at any point in the game, instead of leaving, you constantly attempt to distract the opposing teams' members with annoying chat. While they usually just ignore you, having constant chat in the window can make them miss something. l think that's a pretty cheesy tactic, although I wouldn't call it a strategy. (Hasn't this been removed though? I thought that dead players were auto-ejected after a short time now, or something. Which is stupid.)

Second, if you are playing a free-for-all with unlocked teams, to team up with someone, and then later on, nuke them before you break the alliance to precede a surprise attack. Apparently SMD considers the nuke's status only from when it is launched, and will not engage missiles even if the launching player switches teams afterward. I've used this to great effect in ffas, and it always feels deliciously cheesy!

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 10 Jun 2014, 02:53

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-09T18:24:56+02:00

Fernest wrote:
Hiding your units/buildings is not cheese, it is counter Intel

I have nothing against intended game elements like stealth fields, radar jammer or just removing enemy intel structures.
But hiding outside the map is more of an UI-glitch, because it becomes truly invisible for the other player without any in-game counter.

I'd say it's not cheese but is rather cheating, but that's pretty much semantic.

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 09 Jun 2014, 18:24

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-09T18:01:01+02:00

ok.
Then a kinda-cheesy or rather-silly strategy:
Turning your T3 air factory in a de facto mass fabricator. Surround your T3 air fac with four T3 mass fabs and four T2 mass fabs.
You get INSANE adjacency (even if the real mass fabs are deactivated! bug?)

Now you can produce e.g. Continentals just to self destruct them and then reclaim the mass (which is far greater then the cost of the continental).
You pay like 15% of its original mass cost and get 90% of its original mass cost back. You just invested its energy cost. Making it the most efficient energy-to-mass building in FAF. (You only pay 1200 energy per second and get about 37 mass per second in return)

But it has too high investment cost to make it a valid strategy (even if you use multiple sides of the T3 mass fabs for several T3 factories)

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 09 Jun 2014, 18:01

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-09T17:56:02+02:00

Hiding planes outside of the map is mostly a map problem. Bases should NEVER be so close to the map edge that you can abuse it.

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 09 Jun 2014, 17:56

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-09T17:27:03+02:00

I do not think we should talk about hiding outside of the map here
off topic:

Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 09 Jun 2014, 17:27

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-09T17:08:49+02:00

Hiding your units/buildings is not cheese, it is counter Intel

I have nothing against intended game elements like stealth fields, radar jammer or just removing enemy intel structures.
But hiding outside the map is more of an UI-glitch, because it becomes truly invisible for the other player without any in-game counter.

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 09 Jun 2014, 17:08

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-09T13:55:20+02:00

Fernest wrote:
Using the outside-the-map area to hide bombers from detection or to hide the real amount of ASFs is a cheesy strategy. (or bug exploit)

Especially if you got a Cybran ACU and a mobile stealth field in an air transport, which patrols next to some random map edge.

Hiding your units/buildings is not cheese, it is counter Intel, any strategy will benefit from it, but yea, counter Intel is main part of cheesy strategy

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 09 Jun 2014, 13:55

Re: Cheesy Strategies

2014-06-09T07:29:34+02:00

Using the outside-the-map area to hide bombers from detection or to hide the real amount of ASFs is a cheesy strategy. (or bug exploit)

Especially if you got a Cybran ACU and a mobile stealth field in an air transport, which patrols next to some random map edge.

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 09 Jun 2014, 07:29