Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-16T05:49:38+02:00

I would like to see just a single blanket "Strategy" forum, but there's no need for 10 different subforums.

Statistics: Posted by RedX — 16 Jun 2014, 05:49

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-15T21:22:23+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
If it was not the case, these threads would exist already.

They do, they're just hard to find, because they are burried in a ton of fluff.

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 15 Jun 2014, 21:22

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-15T20:46:58+02:00

Fernest wrote:
It will be reverted. Someone always does. This is the very nature of wikis.
If this was a wiki, I bet someone would have deleted this thread after 5 minutes, with a one liner "I don't get it" or "not needed" or "too basic" or "too detailed" etc. etc.

That's not how a wiki works.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 15 Jun 2014, 20:46

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-15T20:45:17+02:00

Fernest wrote:
If you think, that all of us have nothing of value to contribute, I'll just believe you.

If it was not the case, these threads would exist already.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 15 Jun 2014, 20:45

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-15T20:42:52+02:00

Thanks for your answer. I guess I'll just give up.

There is a wiki.

The wiki is empty! There are no users. There is not one article regarding strategy ---> No one uses it to look up strategies ---> no one will look for strategies in the wiki ---> No one will put effort into it, if no one reads it ---> No one writes anything of worth

Feel free to add strategic information in it.

It will be reverted. Someone always does. This is the very nature of wikis.
If this was a wiki, I bet someone would have deleted this thread after 5 minutes, with a one liner "I don't get it" or "not needed" or "too basic" or "too detailed" etc. etc.

Doing in the forum would only need to endless and probably useless discussions about someone being wrong.

Strategy forums in other games work, but you have more experience regarding this community.
If you think, that all of us have nothing of value to contribute, I'll just believe you.

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 15 Jun 2014, 20:42

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-15T20:09:39+02:00

There is a wiki.

Feel free to add strategic information in it.

Doing in the forum would only need to endless and probably useless discussions about someone being wrong.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 15 Jun 2014, 20:09

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-15T19:56:19+02:00

in-depth strategies =|= general advice =|= noob guide
If you don't understand what I mean with "In-depth", please read the example I've given regarding the T2 fabricator.

Talking about a strategy for a whole game is not really possible. Ideas, sure.

Duh. That's why I used the plural in "In-depth strategies".

And because "Dont get the wrong idea that people will magically start to fill it with content. They will be just dead." has been quoted as if it was true:
Look in the balancing threads. Look in the newbie section. Look in the general section. Look in the suggestion section. etc. etc. etc.
People DO write pages and pages about facts and usage of certain units and why those are the best/worst right now.

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 15 Jun 2014, 19:56

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-15T17:27:48+02:00

To be honest: It's not really required. You can give general advice, answer questions and such, (which is already done in the "Help i'm new" and "general discussion" sections).

In-depth strategies can be discussed (like _really_ in-depth)

Talking about a strategy for a whole game is not really possible. Ideas, sure. That doesn't require a specific subforum.

Very very very specific subforums -> you will only get 1 thread discussion in it -> not needed.
Dont get the wrong idea that people will magically start to fill it with content. They will be just dead.

^This is very true.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 15 Jun 2014, 17:27

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-15T17:13:20+02:00

Sorry for the bump, but I'd like to get Ze_PilOt's reaction.
Counting the voices in this thread, we have:
- 50% support the suggestion (H-Master, Blackster, haris99 and I)
- 50% against it (MadMozart, Aurion, sasin, ax0lotl)

I don't count
- BRNKoINSANITY (he hasn't stated whether he is clearly against it or supporting it. in addition: a dedicated in-depth strategy subforum has a different purpose, structure and target audience than "help me I'm a newbie")
- lextoc (he hasn't stated an opinion regarding the suggestion)
- Gerfand (I think that he has misunderstood everything or made a strawman argument or was confused)

Given the low cost (time) of creating sub-forums I still think it is at least worth trying.

Ze_PilOt, what do you say?

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 15 Jun 2014, 17:13

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-11T05:57:56+02:00

I for one agree with this post, it would be nice to have a place where you can learn new things about the game, sure the Help me i'm a newbie section isn't bad either but it is a little hard to find information there sometimes.

Statistics: Posted by haris99 — 11 Jun 2014, 05:57

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-09T10:47:03+02:00

Although I also think that the existing forums should be good enough, and a lot has been discussed, it is hard to find older discussions.
Could we please get rid of the ignoring of search terms that are too common (or change the settings on that)? Now we cannot search on terms like "torpedo", "shield", etc.

Edit: Moved my question to the Tech Support Forum.

Statistics: Posted by ax0lotl — 09 Jun 2014, 10:47

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-09T06:07:42+02:00

"But here in FAF you make your on strat, this way you can experiment new strats, improve they... and then you will know what is the best strat"

Ok, just a simple question: How many seconds does a T2 Mass Fabricator take to be worth it?
Sure, it produces 1 mass per second and costs 100 mass. So 100 seconds, right?
But you need energy to power it, which costs mass as well.
But the structures need to be built and the build-power costs mass as well.
And the build-power needs to be built and has an opportunity cost, because to build the engineers you have to divert the production of a factory. Maybe built one more factory, if you do it on a large scale.
The engineers need some seconds to travel, which adds to the result.
You have to have T2. Do you use your ACU or the factory, which could be producing military? Do you divert your engineers, which could be reclaiming to increase your build speed? Or is it a net-loss? Is it wiser to make them assist the upgrade of Mexes from T2 to T3 instead?
What about the inflation of mass-income? +1 mass in the beginning might be a cool economic boost in the first x minutes. Later it is just a drop in the water.
What about defenses? Will you use shields (which costs mass as well)? Maybe mobile shields?
Do you cluster the T2 fabricators around mass-storages to get adjacency, which surround your Mexes? But this creates a priority target, which is HIGHLY volatile (one destroyed fabricator leads to a chain reaction, which destroys your T3 mex). Do you cluster them around T1, T2 or T3 energy generators? Maybe you could use the T2 generator at your front, which gives adjacency to your shields and artillery installations? What about surrounding Mex-crosses with T2 fabricators and surrounding the fabricators with T2 energy to get partial yield increase and decrease in energy consumption?
Do you keep them together and increase the need of a locale nuke defense? Or do you spread them around the map to limit simultaneous losses? But this could create new attack vectors for your enemy, which could force you to increase your ASF production to compensate the decreased density.

Let's say you come up with the approximate utility value of a T2 fabricator for a certain minute on a certain map.
Let's say its real cost is 400 mass for one mass income.
THEN you can start making informed strategic decisions. Should you build one of those thingies or get 8 T1 engies to increase reclaim yield for a limited time? Or maybe 5 T1 bombers, which can bomb mexes, but are useless five minutes later? Or 200 wall sections to sabotage AI-pathfinding of your enemy and to create chokepoints? Or maybe 50 amphibious scouts to get vision-intel all over the map? Or one T2 radar as well as its generators? Or one T1 transporter AND 6 T1 artillery AND that air scout AND still have a bit of mass on hand? Or one deceiver and a fire beetle combo to get a sneaky kill on a T2 power generator or surrounded T2 mex?
Are those fabricators really worth it at all? Are they a valid strategy?

One player coming up with some insights can benefit more than himself. He benefits the community: Increase the skill of players, broaden strategic options, advance the meta game. (Without them needing to do the whole analysis themselves)

In other strategy games people nerd out on a far higher level. Just look at the 5th post forums.civfanatics.
com/showthread.php?t=358181
All I am asking for is a subforum with a logical substructure (to increase overview and decrease speed (which in itself increases the longevity of threads, making them more in-depth)) to get more discussion about in-depth methods, beyond the we-want-to-help-noobs-level.
Sure new players are important. But I find it equally important to give old players new strategies and thoughts so the game does not become stale. (And to have an information vault, which is based on FAF balance, which is vastly different.)

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 09 Jun 2014, 06:07

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-09T03:07:39+02:00

I don't think that this is needed... of course is good to know about counters.
But here in FAF you make your on strat, this way you can experiment new strats, improve they... and then you will know what is the best strat and be a better player, instead of get some Pre-made Strats that can be countered, because someone pre-made a strat that counter yours strats

in case of how or wich one tutorials can be very usefull

but strats like "make only this" or "use your ACU like this", I think that is a waste of time...

EDIT- also this make you be able to adapt if your enemy change his strat!

Statistics: Posted by Gerfand — 09 Jun 2014, 03:07

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-09T01:26:19+02:00

Very very very specific subforums -> you will only get 1 thread discussion in it -> not needed.

what?
just giving some examples for the first:
Units/Factions:
Best ASF? Which strat-bomber for snipe? Which bomber are good against subs?
Mercies? Best strategies? How to rush a snipe?
Fire Beetle + deceiver drops? Adding something to the mix?
Best navy? UEF shieldboats + Seraphim? Benefits of using cruiser AA vs amphibious T2 flak?
Which is the most cost effective dropable DPS unit? And how to use this?
Cool/unorthodox usage for Kennels? (or just weird things like "46 kennel drones can support a heavy shield to completely negate the damage of a colossus. It works although it depletes like 600 mass per second during this time" not really useful, but few people know it)
mass T3 engineer + deceiver drop for building a spiderbot behind enemy lines? Valid?
How to micro ASF swarms?
Best usage for Novax? Which maps?
Best way to arrange/support shields? What about front defense? Fire bases? Base? Extractors?
Which ACU upgrades? When? Why?
How many tac-missiles do you need to overload X tac missile defenses? How/When/Where do you fire them?
How to self-destruct/stop czars so they drop on target (instead of overflying it by a small margin)?

newbie section

This is the point of my request: Adding a structured section for in-depth analysis.
People, who frequented Total War, Civ4, Moo2, CK2 forums might know the difference between "game tips/general strategy" and "exploiting the BEJESUS out of everything there is"
And it (as well as general discussion) is very cluttered. Having the subforums gives a good structure.

fits better on a Wiki

This might be true for the final verdict on topics, but few people use wikis to ask questions, post a hypothesis and let people refine it. (And there is not often a final verdict on much of the stuff)

Additionally subforums are kinda cheap to create...
I bet people would use it (right now everything gets posted into General Discussion or Newbie). A dedicated forum increases usage and overview.
And there are already some subforums here, which don't get used too much yet they exist. (e.g. Murder Party has 3 threads with a total of 17 posts. The most recent being 10 month old.)
And we could just try it out. Is there a harm of it being alive for maybe a month or two and killing it, IF it is not used?

Statistics: Posted by Fernest — 09 Jun 2014, 01:26

Re: Request: Strategy Section

2014-06-05T16:21:36+02:00

I'm making a guide, I don't have time to finish it right now tho. But I'll finish it in the coming holiday. I'll keep expanding it untill I feel it covered enough

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 05 Jun 2014, 16:21