Forged Alliance Forever

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-05T21:39:59+02:00

I don't really see the point in going crazy with this gradual damage thing. Doing damage in steps is cool, but a six second delay for the full damage? The damage should move no slower than the speed of the shockwave, and that is done after only a few seconds.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 05 Jun 2014, 21:39

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-04T16:03:23+02:00

ax0lotl wrote:
Ok, another maybe noobish question: Some weapons do their damage over time. Is that how a nuke works? I think the outer ring damage kicks in after a delay? Maybe it would be possible to achieve gradual nuke damage by:
at 0 seconds 30k damage to radius 10
at 2 sec add 30k to all in radius 20
at 4 sec add 17k to all in radius 30
at 6 sec add 3k to all in radius 40
Which would add up to the numbers sasin proposed.
Probably the engine doesn't work like that, it's just an idea.

If it were possible and not too hacky etc., I think this would be really cool. Ice, if doing this requires too much jiggering and it's hard or could create other problems, in my opinion we could just stick with the inner ring/outer ring thing. But if this is possible, I like it a lot!

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 04 Jun 2014, 16:03

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-04T15:51:48+02:00

pip wrote:
GPG removed DOT damages for nukes because of performance reasons and avoid occasional crashes.

I don't have any knowledge of programming so sorry if this is a stupid question, but was it the sort of performance reason that is inherent to the engine or something and consequently dooms the idea, or did it have to do with computers being bad (so we could bring it back?)

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 04 Jun 2014, 15:51

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T13:52:26+02:00

Darn, no possible ACU running in front of the shockwave and escaping within a hair's breadth...

Statistics: Posted by Paul Kauphart — 03 Jun 2014, 13:52

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T12:15:15+02:00

GPG removed DOT damages for nukes because of performance reasons and avoid occasional crashes.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 03 Jun 2014, 12:15

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T11:53:12+02:00

I once tried a mod in which nukes did do damage over time (in an expanding ring), but I can't remember the name. Anyway, it shows that it can be done.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 03 Jun 2014, 11:53

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T11:24:52+02:00

I can't check the files this instant, but I believe all nukes used to do DoT pulses, and at some point were changed to remove all the DoT. Currently I'm 85% sure they all do instant damage across both rings.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 03 Jun 2014, 11:24

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T11:22:43+02:00

Ok, another maybe noobish question: Some weapons do their damage over time. Is that how a nuke works? I think the outer ring damage kicks in after a delay? Maybe it would be possible to achieve gradual nuke damage by:
at 0 seconds 30k damage to radius 10
at 2 sec add 30k to all in radius 20
at 4 sec add 17k to all in radius 30
at 6 sec add 3k to all in radius 40
Which would add up to the numbers sasin proposed.
Probably the engine doesn't work like that, it's just an idea.

Statistics: Posted by ax0lotl — 03 Jun 2014, 11:22

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T10:22:55+02:00

It's great u are willing to participate in this.
Side note: i really don't understand why u mention those "conditions" here - no one was even slightly flaming, demanding or thinking of ZeP o.0 Why bring this negativity in here? If anyone, then it was you who kinda rolled with his eyes about someone who didnt know how SMD works entirely... Which then again turned out to be unknown to quite some people.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 03 Jun 2014, 10:22

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T10:12:16+02:00

We should talk about it now, given a few conditions.

1: No flaming, heavy arguing, or generally making an arse of the thread so that mods have to step in.
2: No demanding that whatever is decided goes in.
3: DO NOT BOTHER PILOT

So long as those things are all good, my point of view is that with people amicably discussing it and me able to mod it, we can come up with a range of ideas, test them, eliminate the madder ones and green-light the less mad ones for further testing in a future balance period.

Sasin's numbers look good. Am I also coupling them with increased SMD reliability?

Having multiple layers of nukes is theoretically possible, but tricky. It would have to be a bit of a hack. The only way I can see of doing it is to adapt the Lobo's projectile code; When the nuke explodes, we have it also spawn a second, separate projectile with more values which explodes immediately.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 03 Jun 2014, 10:12

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T08:45:51+02:00

Ya, I think talking about it is independant of the next balance patch for now. I even think it is neccessary we talk about it now for I assume that most people don't even know about the fact that SMD can miss nukes. And really, the more I think about it the weirder this thing is. Sure, it gives the whole thing a moment of, uhm, excitment on both parts (I am desperate, maybe my nuke will hit?!; I am anxious, will my SMD defend?!), but once again, why not make the nuke missfire occasionally on the other hand? make it drop in the ocean 5 % of all the time - malfunction. Stupid a little?
If this issues was known by more people I think the reaction would be clear: build two SMDs. One in the center of the base, on in the outer ring of the SMD. And, to be sure, build another one in the outer ring of the second SMD. And another in the outer ring of the third one - just to be sure. SMD creep XD
You get the picture.

The idea of altering the nuke zones sounds interesting

Statistics: Posted by --- — 03 Jun 2014, 08:45

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T03:45:10+02:00

sasin wrote:
IceDreamer wrote:how do you play supcom and not realise SMD create a safe zone behind themselves... Sometimes I wonder if people have ever played...

1.) I prefer more aggressive maps like twin rivers and wonder to longer paced maps.

lol

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 03 Jun 2014, 03:45

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-03T01:49:04+02:00

Just trying to get a feel for how people think about what "balance patch" means around here...

ax0lotl wrote:
I think that that is a discussion for a period when people are working on a balance patch. ...

So you're saying that we shouldn't talk about that idea because we're not in a patching period right now...

ax0lotl wrote:
... I'd say that balance patches should be finetuning, and that this exceeds that, people don't expect a change like that.

... but this isn't what we would talk about if we're talking about balance patches?

So we shouldn't have that discussion now, but wouldn't be having that discussion during a balance patch period? When are we supposed to talk about these sorts of ideas?

(btw, I'm fine with "never", always better to change slowly. )

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 03 Jun 2014, 01:49

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-02T23:44:00+02:00

sasin wrote:
Alternatively, if it wouldn't be too hard, it'd be nice to make the damage a little more gradient... maybe we could have 3 layers?

land nuke could be:

80k for radius of 10
50k for radius of 20
20k for radius of 30
3k for radius of 40.

Thoughts?

I think that that is a discussion for a period when people are working on a balance patch. I'd say that balance patches should be finetuning, and that this exceeds that, people don't expect a change like that. But I do like your idea.

Statistics: Posted by ax0lotl — 02 Jun 2014, 23:44

Re: SMD bugged (against Sera Battelship-nuke)?

2014-06-02T19:58:37+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
For goodness sake. Go on, work together and decide what damage we want on each ring as well as costs etc and I'll make it. Remember to take into account Subs are mobile and Battleships are tough.

Reaper Zwei wrote:
I did now and they are right BS nuke does 33000 on inner ring and only does 500 on outer ring while sub nuke does 22000 on inner ring while 3000 on outer

For the sake of elegance, I'd suggest there be two kinds of nukes, normal nukes and sea nukes. Battleship nukes and sub nukes are equivalent.

Land Nukes Inner/Outer: 70,000/3,500
Sea Nukes Inner/Outer: 25,000/2,500

I think these would be plausible values. Maybe the power of the main explosion is really difficult to increase, so in order to get that huge inner nuke damage you have to use a land based nuke. However, the damage at the edge is more similar in land or sea nukes because it's less taxing to have wide damage radius things.

In addition, this maintains the balance features discussed above (sea nuke can't kill com under shield, naval nuke does damage to things on edge of radius, etc.) and maintains the same basic flavor we have now. Thoughts?

Alternatively, if it wouldn't be too hard, it'd be nice to make the damage a little more gradient... maybe we could have 3 layers?

land nuke could be:

80k for radius of 10
50k for radius of 20
20k for radius of 30
3k for radius of 40.

Thoughts?

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 02 Jun 2014, 19:58