Forged Alliance Forever

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T22:48:56+02:00

Locking because I think the OP has his answers.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 24 May 2014, 22:48

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T22:26:06+02:00

Ice dreamer, I always try to be polite.

So, I'm going to put it like this:

I think you're full of shite.

Statistics: Posted by Kof — 24 May 2014, 22:26

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T21:52:04+02:00

I'm not loyal to any brand, I'm loyal to the facts. Yes, they are slower, but the difference matters... Not at all. In the real world of FAF, your brand new AMD chip is still not going to be first to hit 0 simspeed next to the older CPUs, some older i7s, q6600s etc that other people run. I've never had anyone complain about my i7, and all the AMD chips I have mentioned I know FOR A FACT are faster than mine... How do I know? Because I've played FA or seen FA played ON them, right next to mine.

The real world is king. Tests, benchmarks, irrelevant, especially if workload will suffer.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 24 May 2014, 21:52

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T21:38:48+02:00

Icedreamer, go look at the CPU testing done by a lot of the FAF community a while back..... there were TONS of setups tested, and Intel far and away beat the daylights out of AMD. Is it more expensive? Yes. Do you get what you pay for? Yes. Please calm down about your brand loyalty. Intel has better architecture for handling heavy single threads, and FAF is a heavy sim on a single thread.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 24 May 2014, 21:38

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T21:48:30+02:00

Ionic wrote:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

See where AMD shows up on the list....lets put it this way for a few minutes I thought this was an intel only benchmark!

I own a few of the Intel Xeon E3-1270 v3, great value, rock solid with ECC ram, and no built in graphics card on this chip for less things to go wrong.

It basically IS. What the designers of these benchmarks don't tell you is that many of them are specifically optimised for intel architectures. Next time, instead of looking at an arbitrary list on the internet, go find someone who has USED both of them in this thing called 'The real world'. It's a much more accurate representation.

Also remember that that benchmark doesn't say anywhere how many passmarks = how many FA Simspeeds. The answer? There's not actually a huge difference between my old Phenom II Tricore, the i7 in my current laptop, and the 4770k. We're talking none of them slow toe below 0 until everyone in a Setons has 600+ units, and ALL of them do so as soon as an ASF battle begins.

@OP

If you want the ultimate gaming AND working solution, especially for programming and running VMs, the very best solution is an i7-4770k with a decent cooler and a nice overclock. This will be expensive.

If you want a pure gaming build which will suffer when you try to do heavy multitasking, the i5-4670 is your ideal value for money. It will give the same gaming performance as the i7 build for half the price, but your work output will suffer if you really are doing heavy multitasking. If it's only light work than it will be fine, but if you're doing the kind of work some friends of mine are doing (Multithreaded programming, running 3 or 4 VMs at once, acting as a microserver AND doing code compiling) then it's really going to slow you down.

If the work takes the higher priority, and you don't mind lesser gaming performance (But still absolutely adequate. Don't listen to the others, nobody will be able to tell the difference in-game) then get an AMD chip. The FX-8350 (Comes with a stock cooler) fits the bill. It will cost less than the i5, in FA it will slow down a little sooner, but will still be faster than mine and I'm never the first (Or the second, or third) to hit 0, and it will support your workload much better.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 24 May 2014, 21:35

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T21:23:43+02:00

Stock cooling is 100% ok, and even ok for slight overclocks, like 8-10% in most cases. You will be fine for the lifetime of the chip if you choose not to overclock. I just see a lot of people doing what I described above.... build themselves a good PC, and then in 3 years you buy a more powerful PSU, update your graphics, and get better air or water cooling and do like a 20% overclock, and it is like you have a brand new PC for like 1/3 the cost of building another one.

Edit. Intel CPUs run cooler than AMD in most cases, and they use less power.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 24 May 2014, 21:23

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T21:15:10+02:00

The FX9xxx series does not have stock cooler, and their TDP is 220W. I'd require a quite expensive motherboard (the ones in "my" price range supports only up to 140W TPD. I am still an university student, I can't afford a motherboard which supports 220W TPD.) and I have to buy an expensive cooler too. Well, I have to make sure that my software is able to support every core in a CPU, I am not the one who has to do the expensive work with it (Thanks for God), but it would be nice if my developement tools would be a "bit faster" than on my current CPU (Core2Duo E7200). Besides Supreme Commander, I play "older" games with mods mostly, which often support only 1 or 2 cores.

Till BRNKoINSANITY's comment I didn't think about overclocking, but, after 2-3 years... And now Kof's values became more temptating. I wanted to buy an ASUS H97 motherboard, but this does not support OC. I could buy a Z97-K or Z87-K for almost the same money (the Z97-K is a bit more expensive). Are these motherboards suitable for OC-ing the i5-4670K? If yes, which one should I choose? Also does the stock fan suitable for 2 years? I can't afford any more now to buy an expensive water or air cooling.

Statistics: Posted by Arszi — 24 May 2014, 21:15

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T21:09:09+02:00

Intel chips are better (and more expensive) - no doubt in my mind on that.

You can air cool and OC, these days. Google the following, it's what I use and offers good value/performance/ambient sound:

"xigmatek prime sd1484 review"

I'm sure there are more recent products of the like that are better. You don't need to go liquid cooled any more.

2 final points I though of:

Get good high speed RAM - as important as the cpu in many respects. Mine is 2133 Mhz - and I've overclocked that bitch too. Stable as f***. 8 GB will do.

Also, if you're going to OC, make sure you have a decent power supply unit.

GL HF

Statistics: Posted by Kof — 24 May 2014, 21:09

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T20:55:46+02:00

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

See where AMD shows up on the list....lets put it this way for a few minutes I thought this was an intel only benchmark!

I own a few of the Intel Xeon E3-1270 v3, great value, rock solid with ECC ram, and no built in graphics card on this chip for less things to go wrong.

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 24 May 2014, 20:55

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T20:17:01+02:00

Shut up BRNK, you have absolutely no clue. The FX9370 will stay at positive simspeed in all but the very, VERY biggest games, exactly like the i5. They are incredibly close in real world use, and the FX is far better for running virtual machines etc, and it overclocks better too. I have a CPU rating of 280 or so with the 2.0GHz i7 in this laptop and it copes with utter solidity with 4v4 Setons. The FX8320 in my mate's desktop is faster than this, and obviously the 9370 is much faster again.

I do wish people would stop bashing AMD (And Intel) without having tried them. Fact of the matter is that any modern CPU runs this game fine.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 24 May 2014, 20:17

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T19:56:32+02:00

Do not get an AMD chip if you play 4v4 or setons or the like..... everyone will hate you for your slow PC lol. I have a 3570k and it runs great. Any of the mid range to high level i5 is your best bet. I would go ahead and get the "k" chip though, as in 2-3 years instead of upgrading you can pick up a water cooler for a hundred bucks and give yourself a speed boost to keep up with the next gen of chips better.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 24 May 2014, 19:56

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T19:12:44+02:00

You didn't mention the multithreading. If that's the case you are actually better off going AMD for the money, they're extremely good value for money when you begin using all the cores. The performance in FA will be a bit worse, but still ultimately VERY playable, and if you are getting a new motherboard as well with this the overall system costs will be far, far cheaper. Get an FX9370. It is an 8-core job, much, much more powerful than the i5 once you actually begin to ramp up the cores when it comes to virtual machines, and you'll only drop a single simspeed late-game in FA, not too bad at all. It will only suffer in the very biggest games.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 24 May 2014, 19:12

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T16:56:06+02:00

Thank you for your answer! Then I'll go for the i5-4670. As I mentioned, it will be for work primarily (programming, mostly multi-thread programming this summer, hosting a virtual machine, etc), but if I can play Supreme Commander too, then it will be perfect.
Yes, I have been researching for weeks, and I decided to choose the LGA 1150 socket, cuz AMD won't make new FX CPU-s for the AM3+ socket.
I think the ambient temp won't be an issue, I choose a PC Case with front and back fan. Inside it will be less warm than my room

Statistics: Posted by Arszi — 24 May 2014, 16:56

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T16:31:54+02:00

Well it's the best chip out there at the moment.

Don't OC if you don't want to - it does take some research and carries risks - but only if you're rash/careless.

I mentioned under 40 C above, I jut played a game of Setons and it maxed on 54 C actually (which is fine, I aim not to go over 60, but that's because I'm careful by nature, you can go higher asfely). Also, you've got to be careful of when the ambient temparature goes up, i.e. in the summer. It's easy to monitor, you just run a utility like RealTemp and that will give you real time temperature for each core and tell you the min and max, since it started running.

The stock clock speed for a 4670 is 3.4, you can OC it to 4.4 or 4.5 easily enough (without pushing it), you can go higher again, but like I said I'm careful.

But there are lots of different types of chips and motherboards (the two are important). AMD would offer better value, some people like them. Google is your friend. Duck did some work on the cpu indicator in the lobby, maybe pm him, he might have an idea of what a decent cpu type is, so you don't overspend (because maybe the 4670 is too good a chip for FAF, it might be overkill). Depends what other stuff you want to use your new rig for.

Anyway, 'nuff waffle. Later.

Statistics: Posted by Kof — 24 May 2014, 16:31

Re: New CPU for FAF

2014-05-24T16:19:29+02:00

I don't plan to overclock the CPU (I'd rather not experiment with something I can not afford to lose ). So a non-overclocked, non "K" INTEL Core i5-4670 would be sufficient?

Statistics: Posted by Arszi — 24 May 2014, 16:19