Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-30T13:30:26+02:00

The thread creator has his answer. This thread is locked.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 30 May 2014, 13:30

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-30T11:29:36+02:00

Whaaaaat the F*** is going on here.

This is not fun anymore at all. It is Not the 1st of April.

!! !!

Stop that shit please. I´m too old to be able to handle this kind of defeat!

Statistics: Posted by crazywauz — 30 May 2014, 11:29

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-30T11:08:21+02:00

This entire thread, no, entire matchmaker and following shitstorm is just so sad... a huge clusterfuck, even.
1. Communication fail
2. Rating removal- a) too much complaining b) maybe just force people to play 5 MM games each to get it back?
3. ZeP taking offense over a few individuals - really, why even give a f***? It is his project, and he should do what he wants...
4. The biggest point - ZeP saying he doesn't want anything to have to do with FAF anymore. Really, way to go, people.

Now I don't really know what happenned when the shitstorm in aeolus was the worst. Was it really as bad as I heard? How many people were giving constructive criticisms? And how many people were just screaming at the top of their lungs?

Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 30 May 2014, 11:08

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-30T08:17:23+02:00

Well, time to build a team for doing stuff then, because yes, for me, all features are dropped.

You should start forming a team to answer people and fix problems on the tech forum too, because I will also stop doing that.

I'm going off my throne (stupidest thing I've heard for a long time, you really think it's so great to spend hours reading logs files & debugging stuff?), but don't except me to do anything anymore for FAF either.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 30 May 2014, 08:17

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-29T22:35:53+02:00

Paul Kauphart wrote:
rxnnxs now, who said Zep was the master of anybody ?.

no , other way around, i said one page back, that some people are fanboys and make ZePilOt to their master. they hang on his lips, nodding when he says something, even when they do not understand what he is talking about. laughing about jokes they don't get.
thats what i meant.

and yes, ZePilot is doing a great work, but he should not forget that he is also a human and not a god. he has a great ego but thats ok for me.
i just say he should calm/come down (from his thrown).
and therefore i do not like how he decides some stuff and that some people might wander off. and as that is my opinion and maybe others see it kind of the same, i just threw and throw that in.
and that is what is called a discussion. and only this way there is evolution.
a dictatorship might as well go some tim eright, but many times they lose the ground under their feet and they think they are a god. maybe you understand me better.
and after the dictator who come then? his son or some friend or relative. there it comes in handy when there are people there that feel also part of the community. and there is, but sometimes they also have a different stance than the PilOt.

SAKO_X wrote:
..
this system of: unrated custom rated matchmaker ranked 1v1
is basically a copy of the system in place currently for the most popualr game in the world (LoL). it works. if that isnt proof for you, then please go live under a rock...

i do not know LoL, but when million flies sit on a pile of shit it does not mean its awesome stuff.
but i also wrote that MM could make the playing easier :
"and once the rating is settled (over time), there is hardly a way to change that.
only heavy playing will change that. and that would be what a matchmaker can provide: a faster game start without complaining in the game lobby.."
but wait, there is a flaw in my logic (there are of course many flaws): if the matchmaker matches correct, you will win/lose on a 50/50 basis, hehe

SAKO_X wrote:
..reason for zep not to get down from his throne, and actually, climb even further up to his throne-on-a-throne:
hes the only one who does anything around here. nothing else to say.
whining has already cut a feature from us. you want more features to not be made?

at first i want to say that there are people who do a lot for this community. at least from my small view and perspective. and what i have seen is enough to say here are many people at work so to speak.
an that what you ask is exactly what should be watched careful:
"you want more features to not be made?"
i would not like to see FAF featured to death.
and also i am confident that MM is coming to life. you write it as it is clear that it is gone forever.
it would be great if people find together (and i am sure there are many) that come together to test it quite throughly.
if there could be set up a team just like the balance team, and in this case everybody could join and not just the very good ones especially because to get the MM work, anyone can come in and find out, it will work in this way.

and for me the only really big bad thign was the bad communicated test phase where people were slightly foreced into the matchmaker without any good explanation.
yes he can do it because he can do it. but if we are not even alowed to complain then well, do what you want. nobody can or will hinder you.
but we can ask us all: for whom is he /are you all / are we in here?
and writing stuff in this forum is also like a rating. rating is the likes, and games played are the posts. well, i also try not to write crap here just for fun. i also try to move something with this. but i guess some people think now i am a troll. kind of. sorry, have to stop writing it is late.

good evening and good playing!

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 29 May 2014, 22:35

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-29T11:20:51+02:00

For what it's worth I think the team MM is a great idea. From the sound of it the MM would be more like the next reasonable evolution of custom games than anything else.

I'm not sure why you'd need to disable ratings in order to debug MM, though. I understand the fact that custom games would no longer be balancable and the MM would have the balance built directly into it, thus encouraging players to use the MM instead, but even if you left the ratings up I'm sure there would be enough players willing to test the MM for it not to have mattered much. As a programmer I understand where your frustration is coming from and certainly don't hold your decision against you, though.

Statistics: Posted by Incinarator — 29 May 2014, 11:20

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-29T02:38:15+02:00

Shai-Hulud wrote:
Exactly my point. "sink or swim. i don't give a ####." nice attitude

In a pool of half a meter deep water, to someone complaining and being rude, yes... well in fact, no, because drowning in 50 cm water can still kill you, FAF can't.

Shai-Hulud wrote:
I offered my support. I said I would take responsability. Zep doesn't care.

Well then if he doesn't, there isn't much we can do, he still decides, no matter what, and complaining most likely won't make things better.

Shai-Hulud wrote:
true but then we are not a community but followers of Zep

The two are not necessarily incompatible, but I wouldn't say we are followers of Zep, rather, I'd say he is giving us the possibility to use this tool he made, but no matter how many of us are using it or our opinion on it, it is still his. Imagine inviting people to your house regularly, growing a small communities with those parties, one day you decide to change some of the furnitures and they start complaining about it, saying you should bring the old ones back...

Shai-Hulud wrote:
i'd also like to make clear that by saying "i was mad" i didn't mean to imply that i went on a rant. i didn't. by mad i meant "confused in an upsetting way" as i didnt had the necessary information to understand why he was doing what he did.

Sorry, I tend to exaggerate things, and it wasn't directed to you at all, I'm sorry if it felt that way, I was more relating to what seems to have happened in the chat.

rxnnxs now, who said Zep was the master of anybody ? Zep is not the master of FAF community, he merely rules it to keep a minimum level of order in it, however Zep is the master of FAF, and that's a fact, whether we like it or not. Do I think he should be praised for that ? Absolutely, because it takes a huge amount of effort, motivation and investment to make it and keep it alive for so long, for free, in your spare time, and knowing it will sometimes backfire at you. I don't think many people around here are capable of doing that, and I certainly can't.

Statistics: Posted by Paul Kauphart — 29 May 2014, 02:38

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-29T01:24:42+02:00

if i understand correctly, the reasoning is quite simple:

this was planned from the beggining

this system of: unrated custom rated matchmaker ranked 1v1

is basically a copy of the system in place currently for the most popualr game in the world (LoL). it works. if that isnt proof for you, then please go live under a rock.
also the same game hid its rating a while back, for the same reasons that zep wants to. people care too much. what replaced the ego filling hole? leagues or something like that
afaik this is also planned, zep mentioned tweaking leagues.

now that we have established that the system will work,

reason for zep not to get down from his throne, and actually, climb even further up to his throne-on-a-throne:
hes the only one who does anything around here. nothing else to say.
whining has already cut a feature from us. you want more features to not be made?

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 29 May 2014, 01:24

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-29T01:09:24+02:00

if you remove the rating, those people that you criticize take out their paper and write down who is good and who is not, who they like and dont.
so the problem is not solved but brought to another level.
then the ingame "blabla" will increase and the attitude of some people. some always give commands and tell others how to play. this will increase.

maybe you go a step further and give us all random names in matchmaker. who gives a shit about names? if you do not care about rating, do not care about prestige also. and anonymous playing would be also awesome, wouldn't it?

ops, now what is sarcasm and what not? i think if you think a bit further this would really make sense.
but then most of you will feel inside them the ego whispering "hey, than really noone will find out who made this awesome backward move with the bomber. ah, no thats bad."
if you just want to play a game for fun, why should someone know your name

maybe our guru writes a program that filters all comments in the forums and deletes automatically posts like this one. then only the good ones come through.
i do not understand the people who are fanboys and praise ZePilot as their master.
i am not begging for anything and i like it when people do something good for FA. but in here is changed stuff so quick, casual players have always a new game/lobby in front of them.
i like what ZePilot does, but he should come down from his throne. uh, nothing personal, really! but it is just a lobby and some stuff to it! i wonder sometimes how the diamond mod is able to achive so much with so little (hey sorry, i do not want to underestimate the work that was done there!) but changes in that mod are not so frequent i would say. ALSO, mods as that one are not played as often as FAF because the rating is disabled there..
if rating will be diabled, i would like that very much and also the chances are higher, that other mods are used more often.

only thing i do not like is the "forced" hidden rating to draw people to the matchmaker. but hey, i do not really care, things will work out. but it is a wrong way to treat the gamers as sheeps, going where you push them to.
and anyway, like mentioned bfore, you can not change the attitude and the character of a person by taking the rating. if you take it from them, they are going to "shine" elsewhere. and i mean with shining: behaving as an asshole in game or doing "tricks" others do not know of, doing things that are "totally legit" for one, totally abusing the engine by others..

and another point that i will mention why removing rating is, that this rating single player / team player is anyway confusing and the mechanism not well understood.
and once the rating is settled (over time), there is hardly a way to change that.
only heavy playing will change that. and that would be what a matchmaler can provide: a faster game start without complaining in the game lobby..

and please, i do not want to offend anyone here, especially ZePilot. thanks for listening for this hard ti understand textwave..

p.s.: i am aware of my double sided view. anyway: The One who has the Wheel in the hand is the Maker of Things.

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 29 May 2014, 01:09

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-28T21:18:33+02:00

Paul Kauphart wrote:
It was in the what's new, if people can't be bothered to read it, it is their loss. This is not a democratie where you expect the government to broadcast messages on all media telling you to drink water in summer because it's hot. And even if you don't read it regularly, once you notice the change, looking for the information on what is going on is not really difficult.

Exactly my point. "sink or swim. i don't give a ####." nice attitude

Paul Kauphart wrote:
Communication could have been better, maybe [...], but until ZEP has more time or someone he believe can do it steps up saying I can help, take responsability for communication and do this and this and this to improve your com, then it's going to stay what it is, and complaining won't make it any better.

I offered my support. I said I would take responsability. Zep doesn't care.

Paul Kauphart wrote:
Now yes, ZEP, this is YOUR project, you are the big boss here, and us being part of the community mean we have to accept that period.

true but then we are not a community but followers of Zep

i'd also like to make clear that by saying "i was mad" i didn't mean to imply that i went on a rant. i didn't. by mad i meant "confused in an upsetting way" as i didnt had the necessary information to understand why he was doing what he did. Zep is the brain behind FAF and when he changes things he will do so for good reasons - i never questioned that.

Statistics: Posted by Shai-Hulud — 28 May 2014, 21:18

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-28T20:14:10+02:00

RedYak wrote:
It is not quite dry yet, try harder.

What ?

Care to explain ?

Statistics: Posted by Paul Kauphart — 28 May 2014, 20:14

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-28T19:57:31+02:00

Lel, i will most likely be banned for this but i have something to say to the last few comments here.

It is not quite dry yet, try harder.

Statistics: Posted by RedYak — 28 May 2014, 19:57

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-28T17:25:31+02:00

Paul Kauphart wrote:
It took me a while to write that post, and a few answers came in that time, so just to drive my point home :

It was in the what's new, if people can't be bothered to read it, it is their loss. This is not a democratie where you expect the government to broadcast messages on all media telling you to drink water in summer because it's hot. And even if you don't read it regularly, once you notice the change, looking for the information on what is going on is not really difficult.

Communication could have been better, maybe (my own opinion here, the announcement part of the forum could be used more often, but it's just an opinion), but until ZEP has more time or someone he believe can do it steps up saying I can help, take responsability for communication and do this and this and this to improve your com, then it's going to stay what it is, and complaining won't make it any better.

Now yes, ZEP, this is YOUR project, you are the big boss here, and us being part of the community mean we have to accept that period.

I'm not saying we can't help, give constructive critisism and such, but just complaining while waiting passively for things to happen is not.

You don't owe us anything, more, we owe you (and those who helped, let's not forget them) for making FAF such a great thing.

Thank you (again)

This, exactly this.

Ze_PilOt, I listened to (most of) your coding marathon sessions. I donated a little, hoping it might encourage you to keep up the great work you are doing. I fully understand what you did and why, and I was hoping it would help solve some of the problems you mention.
And given how eager you had seemed about the matchmaker at some points in those streams, it was devastating to see the change that just a few objecting people in chat had on that.

I don't usually play team games, but when the matchmaker was released, I tried it for the first time and got a bug; I posted my replays and logs with the information I thought would help to fix it.
Later, after ratings were disabled to test it, I tried it again, and played a balanced and fun 2v2 with it.

Do what you want to do; if you decide the time isn't worth the feature, it would be a massive shame, but OK. That's your choice. If only I could help in some other way than my donation, but the issue is not me not caring, but rather my complete ignorance of coding.

I know you said that having popular demand isn't relevant anymore, but I will say that if it was returned, I for one would certainly use and enjoy it.
Thank you for FAF, and I hope this whole issue hasn't got you down too much

Statistics: Posted by skwibble — 28 May 2014, 17:25

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-28T17:22:57+02:00

to every change there will be a shitstorm.
this is the way of life.

rating removal is going to give the biggest one ever. its a big feature which people like too much and it has to go. no problem with that.

i think if this was reintroduced and kept, the shitstorm would go on for a few days, most of it will be over in the same day or the next, with decreasing severity and trickles for the rest of the week
(sound like a weather man )

again, most of it was because people did not know. theres no other way about it.

all that needs to be done is re implement the changes and sit tight. people will calm down, get used to it.
there will be rage on forums and chat but if zep issues a statement, puts it above the chat, then just logs off and goes on holiday for a couple of days, it will be reasonably painless actually (for him)
when he comes back most of its over and testing can begin

i think with the proper communication this can be braved through, and will result in a better FAF.

better yet, change your name, give it to someone else (who you trust), let them impersonate you and handle the shit. when youre back, they will have left you notes on the most interesting stuff, and everyone else doesnt notice anything.
im on holiday atm so nows a great time ^_^

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 28 May 2014, 17:22

Re: Team Matchmaker being cancelled?

2014-05-28T17:51:18+02:00

Shai-Hulud wrote:
@Paul
I was annoyed by the change too for the first few minutes just because it felt like out of the blue - sink or swim. The idea of the matchmaker is great but people simply didn't understand it. That's what made them so mad.

I think that's most of the problem here instead of being mad, I would first think, hell, what's going on, try to find answers on my own, then try out the new stuff, report any problems I may have, or don't report if I don't have time, which is fine provided I don't go around complaining it does not work. Then I'll wait until I get used to the new stuff to argue, with arguments, whether things are better or worse now. Maybe I'd go all the way to say that communication on the event could I've been better, but one thing I certainly won't do is go on a rampage that the change is crap just because it took me by surprise.

Of course, this is my way of reacting, we're all different, we have different ways of reacting to events, but somehow, I prefer my way.

Ze_PilOt wrote:
Paul Kauphart wrote:Chat messaging :
"WTF Ranking is GONE I cant play anymore and this MM thing is SHITLOAD OF BULSHIT ZEP CHANGE THAT BCK !!!!!"

Okay I'm exagerating

Sadly no. It was that for several hours.

Now I am really diseapointed to be right...Now, I really hopped I was wrong, I'm so disappointed...

Statistics: Posted by Paul Kauphart — 28 May 2014, 17:07