Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2014-05-23T18:53:20+02:00 /feed.php?f=2&t=7430 2014-05-23T18:53:20+02:00 2014-05-23T18:53:20+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73659#p73659 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
On the other hand custom matchmaker has great promise. One last thing i would suggest is then it should be encouraged to use the matchmaker instead of the lobby. I even think that since major changes to the game are not considered to be taboo, the lobby itself should be removed or pacified in terms of design for the encouragement of the matchmaker.

Statistics: Posted by RedYak — 23 May 2014, 18:53


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2014-05-23T17:45:06+02:00 2014-05-23T17:45:06+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73647#p73647 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]> http://www.twitch.tv/forgedallianceforever/b/530570528 and part 2 http://www.twitch.tv/forgedallianceforever/b/530580419

Statistics: Posted by Deering — 23 May 2014, 17:45


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2014-05-23T16:59:54+02:00 2014-05-23T16:59:54+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73638#p73638 <![CDATA[Re:]]>
Ze_PilOt wrote:
Well, they do what they want.

If they do that a lot in 1v1, they will be banished from the matchmaker, if they do that a lot in team games, they will be foed and kicked on sight.

Again, you are worrying way to much about rating.

A low rating displayed black/gray in the lobby doesn't mean the person is bad, it means the server doesn't know what level he is.

That's the mis-interpretation of that fact that lead to the kind of comment you have.

I agree that there is a problem with how the whole thing is displayed to the user, but you should REALLY watch the last Q&A session, all this is answered in detail.

The system itself is good, works, and will stay.


Where can i watch that session? I cannot find it and would like to comment after watching it.

The system itself (or similar) has been used on THQ titles and they perfected it on DoW2. I have put much more time to those titles than faf i admit but i know very well its discrepencies. CoH lobby was a smurf fest with this system mind you and DoW2 hardly had any lobby, everything was Based on truskill search

Statistics: Posted by RedYak — 23 May 2014, 16:59


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2014-05-23T09:02:18+02:00 2014-05-23T09:02:18+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73613#p73613 <![CDATA[New Player Issues & more]]>
If they do that a lot in 1v1, they will be banished from the matchmaker, if they do that a lot in team games, they will be foed and kicked on sight.

Again, you are worrying way to much about rating.

A low rating displayed black/gray in the lobby doesn't mean the person is bad, it means the server doesn't know what level he is.

That's the mis-interpretation of that fact that lead to the kind of comment you have.

I agree that there is a problem with how the whole thing is displayed to the user, but you should REALLY watch the last Q&A session, all this is answered in detail.

The system itself is good, works, and will stay.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 23 May 2014, 09:02


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2014-05-23T08:52:56+02:00 2014-05-23T08:52:56+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73612#p73612 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
Coffee nut wrote:
A potential way to see whether this is actually an issue is for some high ranked player to set up a new account, unbeknownst to everyone (except maybe the moderators, who would be able to oversee the process).

Ideally, that individual can have a 1 v 1 rating of 2000 or more. Then, that person can gain global rank the usual way, with certain restrictions that they are only able to join custom ranked games:
a) hosted for the global ranking boundaries that the player is in (i.e. only joining 400-800 games when 600 global rank, etc)
b) they also cannot tell anyone that it is indeed a new account of an old player (can't tell anyoone including their friends on faf; the reason for this is that then this player can play ranked team games with them and then that could be a confounding factor in the experiment)

We can then see how long and how many games it takes for that individual, who, by joining games intended for their global rank only, would reach their current global rank on the non-smurf account (+- 200 or w/e)

If that new account's global is markedly lower for a sustained amount of time, then it would indicate that current global rank of old accounts would not match up with new accounts even though they are on a similar skill level. This could imply a potential for smurfing.

If they reach global rank that matches their old account, then the ranking system would be evinced to work?

Would this help in settling some discontent/ confusion over the balancing mechanisms of this game?

N.B. If it is the case that I have misconstrued the issue here I would be glad if someone disagrees with this, as I haven't given it much thought, but if so, please tell me why it wouldn't work on top of highlighting my ignorance. Thanks



Very nice consideration of the issue, well thought.

But the simple fact that the said player in your example has to 'grind' and forcedly smurf his global rank to whetever his normal skill level is absolutely unacceptable. If the problem here is the ability of a player lowering its rank by intentionally losing in ladder then then this solution absolutely brings more harm then a real solution.

Let's put the new players aside and think about current ones. Even for old players this system is bad. By severing global and ladder ranking,

- The player still can reduce 1v1 rank and smurf(or call this whatever you want) 1v1 without worrying about his global showing what he does!

-The player can still reduce global rank by quiting custom games ruining 7 peoples time.


PS. Do not say why you care so much about rank without reading all that is posted here and look silly.

Statistics: Posted by RedYak — 23 May 2014, 08:52


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2014-05-22T18:12:22+02:00 2014-05-22T18:12:22+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73578#p73578 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]> to set up a new account, unbeknownst to everyone (except maybe the moderators, who would be able to oversee the process).

Ideally, that individual can have a 1 v 1 rating of 2000 or more. Then, that person can gain global rank the usual way, with certain restrictions that they are only able to join custom ranked games:
a) hosted for the global ranking boundaries that the player is in (i.e. only joining 400-800 games when 600 global rank, etc)
b) they also cannot tell anyone that it is indeed a new account of an old player (can't tell anyoone including their friends on faf; the reason for this is that then this player can play ranked team games with them and then that could be a confounding factor in the experiment)

We can then see how long and how many games it takes for that individual, who, by joining games intended for their global rank only, would reach their current global rank on the non-smurf account (+- 200 or w/e)

If that new account's global is markedly lower for a sustained amount of time, then it would indicate that current global rank of old accounts would not match up with new accounts even though they are on a similar skill level. This could imply a potential for smurfing.

If they reach global rank that matches their old account, then the ranking system would be evinced to work?

Would this help in settling some discontent/ confusion over the balancing mechanisms of this game?

N.B. If it is the case that I have misconstrued the issue here I would be glad if someone disagrees with this, as I haven't given it much thought, but if so, please tell me why it wouldn't work on top of highlighting my ignorance. Thanks

Statistics: Posted by Coffee nut — 22 May 2014, 18:12


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2014-05-21T19:03:38+02:00 2014-05-21T19:03:38+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73515#p73515 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
Ze_PilOt wrote:
That's not smurfing.


It is smurfing in a way, the example i gave looks to have a worse account then what it seems and can play against noobs without suspicion. He just did not fill the requirement of creating a new account to be called a proper smurf.

You may call this whatever you want but as long as a better player is able to play against worse ones there is a problem with the system and please do not get stuck in my specific example, there would be no difference if the said guy had 2000 rank hardly played custom so has 800 rank global which will further divide ranked and global.

Finally as the title i made suggest, this is a new player issue, not as much detriment to older players and may be has advantages too but in the long run it will be very bad for the future of faf.

Statistics: Posted by RedYak — 21 May 2014, 19:03


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2014-05-21T18:22:07+02:00 2014-05-21T18:22:07+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73511#p73511 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
errorblankfield wrote:
Smurfing = players intentionally steamrolling noobies by creating a new account and fighting low leveled players in ranked matches.
This works for any game. For our game, it's simply making a second account and 1v1ing (failing the initial fights on purpose for lower rank).

Smurfing doesn't imply intentionally steamrolling newbies. Just creating a new account.

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 21 May 2014, 18:22


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2014-05-21T18:20:49+02:00 2014-05-21T18:20:49+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73510#p73510 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]> This works for any game. For our game, it's simply making a second account and 1v1ing (failing the initial fights on purpose for lower rank).

Statistics: Posted by errorblankfield — 21 May 2014, 18:20


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2014-05-21T17:53:10+02:00 2014-05-21T17:53:10+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73509#p73509 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]> Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 May 2014, 17:53


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2014-05-21T17:50:54+02:00 2014-05-21T17:50:54+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73508#p73508 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
Ze_PilOt wrote:
RedYak wrote:
I think my post above (before this one) describes what i meant by forced smurfing.


They don't. I don't get it. What is "forced smurfing"?


Here is an example:

A good 1v1 player who barely plays custom games decides to play a custom game. He played say 50 games 1v1 since he joined faf after the update that severed global and ladder ranking. He has 100 global rank and has 1100 1v1 rank.

Now the custom game he joined has players of 500 rank. But we know that he is good with the game since he is a good 1v1 player.

He will be inadvertendly smurfing in the game he joined now due to global rank failing to take account of what he does all the time. Clear?

Statistics: Posted by RedYak — 21 May 2014, 17:50


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2014-05-21T17:32:50+02:00 2014-05-21T17:32:50+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73506#p73506 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
RedYak wrote:
I think my post above (before this one) describes what i meant by forced smurfing.


They don't. I don't get it. What is "forced smurfing"?

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 May 2014, 17:32


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2014-05-21T14:52:37+02:00 2014-05-21T14:52:37+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73503#p73503 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
Ze_PilOt wrote:
RedYak wrote:Then here simply answer this. How does a good ladder player supposed to get a balanced custom match?


Use the new matchmaker function.

RedYak wrote:
This is like time lost on forced smurfing. Give me an explanation as to why it is not please.


Forced smurfing? I don't get what you are talking about.


New matchmaker x v x effects global rating? That is good to hear.

I think my post above (before this one) describes what i meant by forced smurfing.

Statistics: Posted by RedYak — 21 May 2014, 14:52


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2014-05-21T14:54:28+02:00 2014-05-21T14:40:34+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73502#p73502 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
ColonelSheppard wrote:
I think he is under the impression that he can get higher faster with a new account because of potential bigger jumps of the displayed rating.



No, i am under impression that you are getting this completely wrong for some reason. I said everything clearly, as the title of the topic suggests this is a new player issue not a new account thing.

It is redundant to have two seperate ratings which do not effect each other. A player who plays 1v1 should be able to play any custom game to his 1v1 rank. But no, as of now a player can have 1000 rank at 1v1 and get kicked from a custom game of his rank just because his global rank is low or none.


ps: I am not new. Just concerned about the growth of this wonderful community.

Statistics: Posted by RedYak — 21 May 2014, 14:40


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2014-05-21T14:07:06+02:00 2014-05-21T14:07:06+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7430&p=73500#p73500 <![CDATA[Re: New Player Issues & more]]>
rootbeer23 wrote:
ColonelSheppard wrote:I think he is under the impression that he can get higher faster with a new account because of potential bigger jumps of the displayed rating.


well technically he would be correct.


Doesn't mean it will get higher than his current account. Actually very unlikely.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 21 May 2014, 14:07


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