Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T22:22:13+02:00

Swkoll wrote:
This thread badly needs a lock.

Necx, you need to understand that people here have a long history of caring about supcom and have dedicated so much time to creating fun mods for supcom. Then we have you. You're ignoring what they are saying to you and insulting them. If there was any hope of you ever getting their permission to allow you to do something like this, it has disappeared with your arrogance and behavior. I would like to remind you that you have 0 credibility within the community and you are burning bridges faster than anyone I have seen in FAF.

- I insult people who attack me and use aggressive language at start. And that is really nice of me cause I'm used to destroying my opponents utterly.

- Truth hurts like nothing else. People who are cowards will be insulted when they are called cowards. People who are lazy and don't like changes will be insulted when called caveman. People who are bad at games will be insulted when called noobs. But they are all what they are. Naming the problem, doesn't make the problem.

- I never cared about bridges at all. I cared about game. Game is why we are all here not people. People are part of game community and game should be our focus here. And game needs to expand, grow in content, grow in playerbase, grow in every possible way. I used many reasonable arguments here, I don't want to repeat myself. Go, check other games, check their modding communities, and go back when You learn how everything should work.

In the end my credibility is none of Your concern. If I do something that is useless nobody looses (except me maybe), but if I manage to do something that's worth the effort everybody wins. That's how it is. I post this for people who are interested and want to join help, etc. because obviously if I do everything solo (which seems to happen right now) it will take ages. If whole community would make a global effort (we sit together, we make a big-bad-table with all the data and fix units statistics to the point they are more or less balanced, then every person take 1 file to edit and changes what was settled) we'd have expansion up and running in no time.

And another word of truth: this community is stagnant and needs something new to wake up from slumber. And new people would come too. I will fight for that.

Statistics: Posted by necxelos — 15 Feb 2014, 22:22

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T21:58:25+02:00

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
Additionally, any alteration means moving on from the status quo, but it's all a long shot from progress.

Any status quo is the very enemy of progress. Changes are what drives humanity. If You glorify status quo then:
- You should be burned for heresy, because You know earth is not a center of the world,
- You should be drowned for being a witch, because You use devil's device - computer,
- You should be hang out for loving democracy instead of absolute monarchy,
- You should ride the horse instead of using public transportation,
Want more examples or You start to get the idea?

Status Quo - the worst evil ever! Everyone that fight status quo should be welcome with open hands as a hero.

Statistics: Posted by necxelos — 15 Feb 2014, 21:58

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T21:56:27+02:00

This thread badly needs a lock.

Necx, you need to understand that people here have a long history of caring about supcom and have dedicated so much time to creating fun mods for supcom. Then we have you. You're ignoring what they are saying to you and insulting them. If there was any hope of you ever getting their permission to allow you to do something like this, it has disappeared with your arrogance and behavior. I would like to remind you that you have 0 credibility within the community and you are burning bridges faster than anyone I have seen in FAF.

Statistics: Posted by Swkoll — 15 Feb 2014, 21:56

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T21:50:47+02:00

Golol wrote:
you just need to hit a hot topic.

Now that we agreed that having FAF expansion to the game is a hot topic thus it is important for people (even though they may have different vision on what it should be) we are at last going in right direction.

As for faction diversity I agree with the words of PA makers - between faction diversity in RTS games such as TA and SupCom is not that important as inside faction diversity (all the TA successors are different from StarCraft when there are literally no 2 similar units in the whole game - it's like 2 different genres of RTS, one having global scale and factions offering similar gameplay and one in small scale offering unique units for every race). This being said I think with proper selection of units (that's why I said I need actuall list of factions strengths/weaknesses as of ...29 version) from mods we can keep the faction diversity more or less intact. It's all about trying. There's quite a difference in success chance if You try vs not try at all don't You agree?

Statistics: Posted by necxelos — 15 Feb 2014, 21:50

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T21:47:19+02:00

necxelos wrote:
rockoe 10 - I have this basic moral rule of completely ignoring / not caring, who is who. I simply judge person by what he says, by his knowledge, by his attitude and his actions.

Then you shouldn't be surprised that others don't care who you are. You also allow others to judge you on what you say, what your apparent knowledge is or how you behave.

This for example is one of the most arrogant and degenerative things I've read on this forum, or any forum for that matter:

necxelos wrote:
Me = progress
You = stone age and crawling back to dinosaurs

Additionally, any alteration means moving on from the status quo, but it's all a long shot from progress.

Was resin rude? Possibly, but you should definitely tone your own language down.

On the subject itself, as the player: I have no interest in the addition of units in the game, especially not on the form of low tech experimentals. The balancing of units is hard enough as it now, I dread to think what it will look like when more stuff is added.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 15 Feb 2014, 21:47

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T21:21:25+02:00

tell me how (except for nomads) it will imrove the gameplay.
most mods that add new units utterly destroy faction diversity and will most propably make the gameplay worse, even if they are balanced.
also you are being arrogant saying that you do what needs to be done etc.
and getting most of the forum activity in a topic is not hard and doesnt say anything. you just need to hit a hot topic.
just the fact that zep doesnt post in here shows that it is very unpropable this will happen.

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 15 Feb 2014, 21:21

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T21:12:27+02:00

If you convert it to google doc, everybody can see your work and help you

Statistics: Posted by Dragonfire — 15 Feb 2014, 21:12

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T21:04:16+02:00

Now to the subject. I've done unit list for 2 factions, another 2 awaits. I'll make it an excell/calc type file and maybe convert it to google docs later. What I could use is:
- Some kind of DPS calculation alogrithm. I think of splitting the numbers into 3 categories on start (Massive AoE Ground DPS, Single Target/Small AoE Ground DPS, AA DPS) and of course 4th category - HP. Of course it's more complicated then that, but this will suffice for start to make preliminary balancing.
- List of general strengths/weaknesses of all the factions as for ...29 patch (my outdated experience is from last official patch so not much use for now). Like faction A has superior Tier 1 Airforce but is weakest in terms of Navy.

Statistics: Posted by necxelos — 15 Feb 2014, 21:04

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T20:57:34+02:00

necxelos wrote:
Me = progress
You = stone age and crawling back to dinosaurs

Can you show us/me the progress?

Statistics: Posted by Dragonfire — 15 Feb 2014, 20:57

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T20:56:10+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Since everything else is just idiotic posing.

Now You crossed the line.
Posing is the very definition of Your existance, and words from lowlife like You may make me angry but surely wont make me stop, quite the opposite.
Right now You're fighting a really bad fight, and the worst part is that You don't even know what You're fighting for.

- Good of the community? NO, but You pose like one.
- Progress of the FAF as official SupCom takeover? NO, because You don't want FAF to expand too much.
- For the good of all the poor modders out here who had their content stolen? NO, because noone wants to steal anything!

Begone evil spirit, begone!! Crawl back to the depths of earth where You lingered and stay there forever! There's no place on surface for the likes of You...

Me = progress
You = stone age and crawling back to dinosaurs

Statistics: Posted by necxelos — 15 Feb 2014, 20:56

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T20:44:56+02:00

Golol wrote:
necxeloy, with saying balancing it is incredibly hard, i mean that the balance will propably be pretty bad. there are tons of hours spent on balancing 3 factions. with even more stuff it will nearly certainly be bad, atleast for quite a few patches. how long is this game out? or atleast FA? there are still new patches coming.
be realistic, even if you put a ton of effort into it, the balance wont get much better fast.
supcom has a competitive core and most people dont just want 'splosions. Most of this stuff (blackops, TM) wouldnt really make the gameplay any better. atleast not serious gameplay.

As a long-time ESL player (not proffesional, cause in my country there is sadly no way to live from that only) I can say one thing: new things even if imbalanced are allways good. They force people to change their strategies (old ones suddenly don't work at all), they change the whole meta (counters, etc.) and most of all they create something fresh on the rotting corpse of old. Do You know what kind of crying, whining and suicide promising was when Blizzard announed new units in Heart of the Swarm? Do You know how much it was imbalanced at release? Now ask someone if they want to go back to what was before.

It's simply matter of priorities. Preliminary balancing YES. Complete balancing NO - can be done later after the content is released and everyone plays it.

Golol wrote:
If people really wanted these mods as expansions (i.e. implemented in the standard version, if thats what you mean by expansion), more people would play them.
and the argument that you just can ignore these units irrelevant. come on, just ignoring them wont change the fact that your enemy will be running at you with them.

That's the whole point. People are forced to play with new stuff so they automatically generate balance feedback. Really - where were You in the last 10 Years of gaming industry?

Golol wrote:
So You woke up after the battle is already done. But hey - nice try.

- You have no right to speak on their behalf

you do realize that he is either being neutral or actually trying to give you tips?

How is exactly telling me to give up being a tip? And how is exactly tone of his post neutral? I'm not posing for saint here, hell the saints are overvalued anyway. I'm just a man who "does what needs to be done". In this case world of RTS gaming need Supreme Commander Forged Alliance to be new and shiny so they come back to it with smile on their faces, drooling over the thought of all the news stuff being available to them.

Golol wrote:
and unlike You I know what "global effort to create something bigger then Your own ass" means

For me Resin looks like a spoiled kid who needs a spank.

maybe he was rude, no reason to be too. especially because you're notsaying against what he talked about, but against him himself.

Golol wrote:
also, stop being a douche

I just respond in kind. I'm kind to people who are kind, I'm jerk to poeple who are jerks and I'm stomping and smashing people who try to jump on me. Fair'n'Square & Pretty Simple. Good old Hammurami had a point!

And most important: that's what this community needs. Someone with balls and guts! Well, that's actually what every community needs, but this one need it desperately.

Btw. in the last few days 90% of any activity in this forum is in my topics. That only proves my point. Someone need to cast ressurection spell out here and looks like I'm doing a pretty good jomp.

Statistics: Posted by necxelos — 15 Feb 2014, 20:44

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T19:56:09+02:00

necxeloy, with saying balancing it is incredibly hard, i mean that the balance will propably be pretty bad. there are tons of hours spent on balancing 3 factions. with even more stuff it will nearly certainly be bad, atleast for quite a few patches. how long is this game out? or atleast FA? there are still new patches coming.
be realistic, even if you put a ton of effort into it, the balance wont get much better fast.
supcom has a competitive core and most people dont just want 'splosions. Most of this stuff (blackops, TM) wouldnt really make the gameplay any better. atleast not serious gameplay.
If people really wanted these mods as expansions (i.e. implemented in the standard version, if thats what you mean by expansion), more people would play them.
and the argument that you just can ignore these units irrelevant. come on, just ignoring them wont change the fact that your enemy will be running at you with them.
also, stop being a douche

You are one single douche who wants to defend his friend (without any success so far).

So You woke up after the battle is already done. But hey - nice try.

- You have no right to speak on their behalf

you do realize that he is either being neutral or actually trying to give you tips?

and unlike You I know what "global effort to create something bigger then Your own ass" means

For me Resin looks like a spoiled kid who needs a spank.

maybe he was rude, no reason to be too. especially because you're notsaying against what he talked about, but against him himself.

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 15 Feb 2014, 19:56

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T19:41:08+02:00

necxelos wrote:
As long as there is credit given to original authorse of content - nobody cares.

Since everything else is just idiotic posing I can ignore it, but this I must shoot down. What you are talking about is redistribution. That does not come under fair use law or policy in the same way that Youtube music videos and covers and stuff come under. Giving credit to the author changes nothing in this case. As far as European Law is concerned, without our permission, you can't do what you're talking about.

And Resin isn't acting like a spoiled brat at all. He's acting like a man trying to defend over 80,000 man hours of work, work which has in the past come perilously close to cease-and-desist orders to stop it being stolen. You have no idea the size of the wounds your idea has opened up.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 15 Feb 2014, 19:41

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T19:04:45+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Oh, and Nomads is already scheduled for integration anyway, so you bring nothing new on that front either.

Good! At least one thing will be done as it should be... Thank gods some people still have their hearts and bains in the right places.

Statistics: Posted by necxelos — 15 Feb 2014, 19:04

Re: Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

2014-02-15T19:07:30+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Resin is one of the most prolific modders in SupCom history. He did the vast majority of work for the massively complex 4th Dimension total conversion mod including creating many of the new units, did almost the entirety of the 4DC mod, and has had input on the code for just about every SupCom mod released over a 5 year period. He's pretty much got the biggest modding CV of anyone here, so as far as shooting you down goes, he's pretty much nailed it.

Him being something/someone/whatever doesn't change the fact that he acts like a spoiled kid and a jerk at the same time. And nailing anything could require at least few titles and mensa membership.

IceDreamer wrote:
You may not be aware, but a few years back Resin and his team, as well as the BlackOps team, myself, and a couple of other modders too, had some MASSIVE problems with our work being ripped off and redistributed without our permission. This has caused many of us to take a zero-tolerance stance on these suggestions, hence Resin's response.

As long as there is credit given to original authorse of content - nobody cares.

IceDreamer wrote:
You need to give up on this idea. The BlackOps team will not give you permission. The 4thD team will not give you permission. I highly doubt the Total Mayhem team will give you permission. PilOt will not give you permission. The vast majority of the community recognise that these mods add nothing of real value to the base game, and exist as fun custom modes. The community do not want this 'Expansion' to happen.

a) You are not the community, You know nothing about community, and try to ignore already interested voices in this topic. You are one single douche who wants to defend his friend (without any success so far). Even though he already said:

Resin_Smoker wrote:
Now after reading all that if your still willing to forge ahead, learn modding, forgo having a personal life, then no one will stop you.

So You woke up after the battle is already done. But hey - nice try.

b) Empty talk from Your side, because:
- You have no right to speak on their behalf (this is defamation which is a serious offense in quite a few countries) nor on anyone's behalf beyond yourself. Unless You present signed contract proving You are their official representative.
- If You're not interested - go Your way. But You have no right nor power to prevent people who want some change from making this change.
- Law-wise any unregistered in respective agencies content can be used as long as all the credit is given and no profit is generated through their work. And I already said that I'm not trying to steal their work, exactly the opposite. I want to glorify their work and put it in it's rightfull place - right on top of the world.

Statistics: Posted by necxelos — 15 Feb 2014, 19:03