Forged Alliance Forever

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-03T18:36:12+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
Where on earth do you get the idea that double damage overkill should leave no wreck? Wrecks follow a different formula.

Considering the different formula bit, this is a moot point, but I'd say that double damage over kill should leave no wreck because the extra damage should reduce the HP of the wreck just as damage would reduce the HP of a unit. At some point, the wreck HP goes to 0 and so the wreck is gone.

Also, there's almost always at least a little bit of overkill, so the game calculates rebuild bonus based upon how much the wreck was reclaimed. Even wrecks worth very little mass reclaim can provide full rebuild bonus... as they should.

Why should they?

Also, note that most wrecks have more hp than the units they are made from... which makes sense.

1. No they don't. Either they don't or the unit db is completely wrong. I have checked the T2 land factories, the T2 Mexes, the T1 Pgens and four arbitrarily chosen units from the db and all have wrecks that are 90% of the health of the original unit.
2. If they would, why does it make sense?

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 03 Feb 2014, 18:36

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T17:24:22+02:00

Yes. It's hardcoded to 0.5, and unless we hardcode it to another value, it's almost impossible to change it accordingly to the wreck mass.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 02 Feb 2014, 17:24

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T17:20:34+02:00

so if was TMLed in cyb vs cyb game, i can rebuild my t2 mexes from 50%
niiiiiiice

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 02 Feb 2014, 17:20

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T16:24:56+02:00

ZLO_RD wrote:
SC-Account wrote:Wrecks care about overkill. You can see it with nukes, TML, overcharge etc..
I guess fixing the TML "issue" would be possible by increasing damage by one (as said before), but it won't fix any other occurrence of this effect.

That said, I don't feel like TML's need to be buffed, although T2 MEX wreckages leaving no mass when reclaimed and 50% when rebuilt is kinda tricky, but it usually isn't too easy to get a T2 engineer there (takes a lot of time and micro). It has been known since FA-beta.. I don't think it is a big deal, to fix it properly would mean to fix the entire reclaim/rebuild system.

i made some tests and if percival shoot at t1 aa (800 hp vs 1600 damage) aa still leave wreck and you can rebuild from 50%
also if after buidling dies there is wreck left, rebuild will start from 50% no matter what, even if you try damage wreck after building got killed, it still rebuilds from 50%

Where on earth do you get the idea that double damage overkill should leave no wreck? Wrecks follow a different formula. Also, there's almost always at least a little bit of overkill, so the game calculates rebuild bonus based upon how much the wreck was reclaimed. Even wrecks worth very little mass reclaim can provide full rebuild bonus... as they should.

Also, note that most wrecks have more hp than the units they are made from... which makes sense.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 02 Feb 2014, 16:24

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T16:17:44+02:00

Yes, it can't be fixed.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 02 Feb 2014, 16:17

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T16:13:34+02:00

SC-Account wrote:
Wrecks care about overkill. You can see it with nukes, TML, overcharge etc..
I guess fixing the TML "issue" would be possible by increasing damage by one (as said before), but it won't fix any other occurrence of this effect.

That said, I don't feel like TML's need to be buffed, although T2 MEX wreckages leaving no mass when reclaimed and 50% when rebuilt is kinda tricky, but it usually isn't too easy to get a T2 engineer there (takes a lot of time and micro). It has been known since FA-beta.. I don't think it is a big deal, to fix it properly would mean to fix the entire reclaim/rebuild system.

i made some tests and if percival shoot at t1 aa (800 hp vs 1600 damage) aa still leave wreck and you can rebuild from 50%
also if after buidling dies there is wreck left, rebuild will start from 50% no matter what, even if you try damage wreck after building got killed, it still rebuilds from 50%

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 02 Feb 2014, 16:13

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T14:34:18+02:00

Wrecks care about overkill. You can see it with nukes, TML, overcharge etc..
I guess fixing the TML "issue" would be possible by increasing damage by one (as said before), but it won't fix any other occurrence of this effect.

That said, I don't feel like TML's need to be buffed, although T2 MEX wreckages leaving no mass when reclaimed and 50% when rebuilt is kinda tricky, but it usually isn't too easy to get a T2 engineer there (takes a lot of time and micro). It has been known since FA-beta.. I don't think it is a big deal, to fix it properly would mean to fix the entire reclaim/rebuild system.

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 02 Feb 2014, 14:34

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T14:24:13+02:00

Golol wrote:
rebuilding does care about the wreck hp, if thats what you meant.
i tried it once and when i half reclaimed a wreck a building on it started with less HP.
otherwise you could reclaim something to 1 mass, rebuild it at 50 mass, reclaim again, rebuild again = infinite mass

yea that is inf bass but you need to have power for that xD

also people report that wreck do not care about overkill, however care about if is gets reclaimed or damaged

i will check

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 02 Feb 2014, 14:24

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T14:03:16+02:00

rebuilding does care about the wreck hp, if thats what you meant.
i tried it once and when i half reclaimed a wreck a building on it started with less HP.
otherwise you could reclaim something to 1 mass, rebuild it at 50 mass, reclaim again, rebuild again = infinite mass

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 02 Feb 2014, 14:03

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T12:55:52+02:00

I know you're being silly, but I think some sorta rounding error might be at play and adding one damage to the TML might not actually do anything... not worth over thinking though. The hotfix is easy either way.

The problem isn't really that a <0 hp wreck can be made. It's odd, but technically a .00001 HP wreck* can stay in the game without issue. The problem is that it takes just as long to reclaim AND can be rebuilt for free mass (50% construction time).

We really need to make engies reclaim at a rate determined by build power. So in this case, the .000001 mass inside is reclaimed instantly without really helping.
Moreover, rebuilding doesn't care about spawned HP apparently. While mass seems to be correctly decreasing as the mass experiences more overkill, rebuilding gives a flat 50% buyback. The only time this goes down is if you reclaim and then build. This shouldn't be.
From the time of spawn, reclaim/rebuild needs to be tied to HP. Rather linear relationship so nothing crazy. A 10% decrease in HP should show a 10% decrease in mass collectable and 5% in pre-rebuild. And all this relationships need to compliment each other currently -as in reclaiming hurts the wreck for the same amount of damage.

Minor inconsistency in the game, but something worth fixing at some point.

Helps balance mass/wrecks a bit too.

*This is my guess at what is happening. The missile is dealing an odd amount of damage slightly less than 6000 or overkill isn't carrying over correctly leaving the wreck with a sliver of health.

I hope this game has fractions in the code or a lot of this looks silly. XD

Statistics: Posted by errorblankfield — 02 Feb 2014, 12:55

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T12:41:09+02:00

or mayebe TML damage by 1?

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 02 Feb 2014, 12:41

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T12:30:19+02:00

would reducing the HP of the t2 mex by like 1 fix it ?

Statistics: Posted by Mr-Smith — 02 Feb 2014, 12:30

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T12:26:57+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
I've looked into the issue, but sadly the code for the rebuild bonus is called by the engine, and at a step where it's not possible to compute a rebuild bonus related to the heath of the wreck.

3000 hp building should not leave wreck in the 1rst place against 6000 damage... can we fix that?

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 02 Feb 2014, 12:26

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T11:52:45+02:00

I've looked into the issue, but sadly the code for the rebuild bonus is called by the engine, and at a step where it's not possible to compute a rebuild bonus related to the heath of the wreck.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 02 Feb 2014, 11:52

Re: 0 mass wreck bug

2014-02-02T00:04:18+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
How is this a bug? There's such a thing as "overkill". When you do more damage to something than it has HP remaining, the wreck is worth less and, as you can see when you nuke a base, if the overkill is great enough the wreck doesn't show up at all.

3000 hp buiding, 6000 damage missile -> should be no wreckage, am i correct?

anyway it is not happening with mexes/missiles of other factions
and also if you reclaim you get no mass, but if you rebuild you get 50% of buiding... that is weird

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 02 Feb 2014, 00:04