Forged Alliance Forever

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-28T21:12:38+02:00

Of course Against torpedo, always pack your units so that everybody is well inside each other's antitorp range.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 28 Jan 2014, 21:12

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-28T19:25:11+02:00

Vee wrote:
Megalith is the worst navy unit ever 5 coopers can beat it because they completely deny its torpedoes. It only works if your enemy makes absolutely no units with anti torpedo.

5 coopers only deny if they are tightly packed. If they are spread out they cant deny.

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 28 Jan 2014, 19:25

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-28T18:07:49+02:00

Megalith is the worst navy unit ever 5 coopers can beat it because they completely deny its torpedoes. It only works if your enemy makes absolutely no units with anti torpedo.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 28 Jan 2014, 18:07

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-28T17:34:23+02:00

Did you guys include Megaliths in your discussion?

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 28 Jan 2014, 17:34

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-25T04:38:15+02:00

That is the same argument I used Apof, but I was ignored xD

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 25 Jan 2014, 04:38

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-25T04:34:44+02:00

That is very big "IF" for 28k mass. I agree it's easily to pay that thing off in the long run on the big maps, but early on you have a big gap between you and your opponent. So if you allow your opponent to build one and start using it, you deserve to lose the game.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 25 Jan 2014, 04:34

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-25T00:14:00+02:00

That is true for every thing in the game. But IF you can kill a cruiser every 20 seconds and also deny him the reclaim, you drain him at 100 mass / second. You'll get your Novax paid off by 5 minutes that way.

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 25 Jan 2014, 00:14

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-23T08:09:27+02:00

I never rely on the novax. It's way useless for that price. While you will be investing resources into it, your enemy may invest those into something else. So when it will go online and go to its target and start doing damadge you may basicly be overruned by enemy navy or get a couple nukes into base/fleet, or even get a spider to your com even before novax is built.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 23 Jan 2014, 08:09

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-23T05:07:51+02:00

Finally, someone giving credit to the awesomeness of the Novax!

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 23 Jan 2014, 05:07

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-23T04:40:26+02:00

If you're talking about UEF aerial counter-navy, I'm surprised you omitted mention of the Novax. On many maps this comes online too late to make a difference, but on a number of maps (the larger the better) it can be incredibly devastating. Completely uncounterable by navy, it can destroy a cruiser every twenty seconds, rendering a navy quite vulnerable to aerial attack. No ship can escape the satellite either, so it can easily destroy reinforcements before they arrive at the main conflict unless players pay very careful attention to mobile shield positioning for ships at every point along the ship's path.

UEF players can defend against it relatively easily with Bulwarks, but Aeon and Seraphim players have to invest disproportionately in hover shields, dramatically increasing both their number and the amount of attention paid to their positioning. The Novax also works well even against heavily shielded navies when used in combination with the rest of the UEF navy. While battleship fire is relatively inaccurate at extreme range, and the cruisers' missiles have an extremely hard time hitting any moving target, both weapons easily do a lot of damage to shields, and once the shields go down the Novax can destroy the shield units with great efficiency, before moving on to destroy the navy's cruisers, and then the navy itself.

Cybran navies are utterly helpless against the Novax - their lack of any oceangoing shielding means the Novax can destroy any ship it wishes, render a fleet blind by attacking its sonars, and destroy engineers assisting naval factories with impunity.

The Novax is super cool.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 23 Jan 2014, 04:40

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-22T07:57:34+02:00

It is perhaps worth mentioning the Air to Sea interactions of each of the factions as well. As the game progresses into the late T3 stage, aerial counter-navy attacks become much more viable. An established naval player is not so easily hindered by enemy air superiority. As they have the ability to safely accumulate air units within their Carriers, and Cruisers offer a mobile and effective surface to air control.

When it comes to anti-naval air power at T3 Seraphim is undoubtedly the weakest. A situation which is only rectified when the T4 Awhassa comes online. They have no T3 gunship, and a below par torpedo bomber. Their T2 fighter-bomber is capable, and the T3 bomber is as useful as any other.

The Cybrans have the strongest anti-naval airforce. Because it is effective at all tech levels. Which goes a long way to countering the deficiencies of their naval units. They have the jester which is just as capable at countering engineers and hover units on water as it is on land. At T2, they have a very good torpedo bomber. They also have the Corsair and Renegade. Both with their AOE rockets - which when groundfired can kill submarines. Even the T3 subhunter will fall to Corsair strikes.

At T3 and T4 they get the Hard hitting Wailer and the Soul Ripper (Which can also ground-fire submarines). Cybran are hands down the best anti-naval air force.

Second place goes to the Aeon - with their nasty T3 torp bombers, and hovering clouds of Restorers. The UEF, in 3rd place, must rely on their awesome T2 torp bombers, and their hard hitting Broadswords. Which can make for a very lethal surprise when launched from an Atlantis. When it comes to ripping ships to pieces, few aircraft can do it better than a wing of Broadswords.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 22 Jan 2014, 07:57

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-22T06:47:51+02:00

It depends on the Tech but Cybran clearly dominate until T3 where sera's Yathsous win hands down. The Cybrans frig and subs clearly are the best at t1, with UEF following with its solid frigate, and good sub countering the seras slightly weaker sub (offset by Zthuees). Aeon have aurora and a decent frig for map control, but splitting the AA and surface fire function costs mass. Their sub does not have a deck gun as well, also reducing it's versatility, placing it toward the lower end of the spectrum at t1.

At T2: Barracuda is strong with it's stealth, Vesper is meh - only build if absolutely required. The real beasts at T2 though are (obviously) the Salem, The Exodus (maneuverable, can beat Salem one v one micro'd), the Sera Destroyer and the UEF Cooper. UEF and Sera cruisers rule the roost out of the AA with both Cyb and Aeon sacrificing muzzle velocity for surface fire. Mermaids are an excellent force multiplier for Cybran as well, now much more useful than the bulwark or Asylum. The cybrans T1 aa from massed frigates serves well at this time, as does the large frigate meatshields of UEF and Sera, Aeon have to be more creative and get control of air, and use auroras to contest map control. It's tougher for Aeon though as they don' really have much in the way of weapons to look forward to going forward to T3 - so massing exodus is often a good strat.

T3 - Seraphim is number 1 thanks to its sub-hunters, T3 shields and nuke battleship. Apofena described it well - on Setons they don't even have to contend with map control - so you see the extreme version, but he's right, on other maps it's the same, there's no real way to stop a Sera player from getting a massive lead in subs which can't be countered.
The UEF have both the Summit and Neptune, both really good surface vessels but they need to be protected by destroyers cruisers shields and coopers, so it forces players to hoard their navy, being defensive. The SMS does not bear mentioning.
Aeon have average battleship, but the wicked awesome Missile Ship - comparatively cheap, it's mean. They also have access to carriers at T3

Cybran still are powerful at T3 with a good battleship, carriers & HARMS. Again the strat sub does not bear mentioning.

T4: The Endgame - still I think the Sera are dominating - just on the strength of the Yathsous - but that said, the only way to stop a Ythotha enroute is with torps, and if you have yathsous and ythotha, they will tank for each other and your navy is gone. Surface navies are also quite vulnerable to nuking, and to bombing via Ah-Wassa. These can often completely shear away a navy's frigate cruiser and support craft cover.

The UEF have the powerful if expensive Atlantis, whilst it is an powerful sub, it's not remotely as mass effective as the Yathsou (4:1) it is however the best carrier and sub (if hindered again by being the last carrier on the field) and excellent AA. The Cost of the T4 UEF navy is very high though, so heavy losses are completely unacceptable to a UEF admiral, as he cannot recover as quickly as other factions.

The Aeon have the powerful Tempest, it excels as a battleship and a shipyard, capable of rapidly increasing T2 stocks whilst at Sea. It's damage is also very impressive. The Aeon usually have the benefit of air advantage this s boosted by the CZAR at T4, able to eat ASF clouds, decimate navies with it's beam and it's corpse. Multiple Czars can be a serious threat in their own right.

Cybran don't have much new to offer - just greater production capacity, being able use offensive harms, and SCUs to mass rush cheap experimental, while going for surface dominance with it's power final level navy. The Megalith and can also provide fire support under the right conditions.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 22 Jan 2014, 06:47

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-21T10:45:05+02:00

Mycen wrote:
E8400-CV wrote:
Still, the best navy: mix it up. Get engies from your teammates and build all you need! On Ozone I'll happily trade stealth boats for shield boats with the other navy guy.

Faction mixing? Eww, gross...

If you want another faction's tech, go out and capture it like a man, don't trade engis with your teammates like little girls at a tea party.

you can mix navy in team games, you can take engyes from your ally, i see nothing gross in this. also you should tell about that before games, that your game not allows navy mixing, or better put it in game name, so you can proove that there were restriction...
and anyway you ally can alway come and build navy to help you, right?

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 21 Jan 2014, 10:45

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-21T09:57:32+02:00

E8400-CV wrote:
Still, the best navy: mix it up. Get engies from your teammates and build all you need! On Ozone I'll happily trade stealth boats for shield boats with the other navy guy.

Faction mixing? Eww, gross...

If you want another faction's tech, go out and capture it like a man, don't trade engis with your teammates like little girls at a tea party.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 21 Jan 2014, 09:57

Re: What do you think is the best navy?

2014-01-20T08:37:50+02:00

Apofenas wrote:
I do like aeon navy. Basicly on t2 stage aeon can easily break uef player. The uef destroyer has a rubbish underwater options but it has very good direct fire cannons while cooper has insane underwater options but no direct fire cannons at all, so basicly you just need to fight with t2 subs vs destroyers and blazes/auroras vs coopers.

If cybran player doesn't use stealth on barracuda, vesper wins because of health and torp defence.

Aeon destroyer is also quite good. It has best health, best torpedoes and anti-torp defence and a good cannon. You just need to use it by getting in close fight so in could be hard to dodje shots. In that case aeon destroyer gets 393 dps while uef gets 304, seraphim 360 and cybran 330 but it will still has a health and a anti-torp advantage. And for sure you can get into weak sides of other destroyers: cybran can't shoot back; uef and seraphim can shoot with both cannons olny to sides.

Aeon cruiser is quite good because it has pretty good aa which can kill t1-t2 bomber even before it will drop bombs.

On t3-t4 stage aeon have a lot of counter options to seraphim. T3 subhunter is the most useless thing against hovering units, so you can try t2 spam on small maps; to put blazes above subhunters and bomb those with torpedo bombers. At the late game you get a tempest which you can guard with mobile shields, blazes, t2 flak, t2 subs and t3 sonars. tempest basicly outranges t3 subs and if those come into range they come closely to vespers. The tempest can also groundfire so that means that as long as t3 sonars are in mix, you will not be able to just park your t3 subs somewhere close to it.

Very true, I think t3 subs are overrated. The only faction that doesn't have a navy counter is cybran, but they can make harms creeps.. Ground fire with tempest is beast, taking out 4+ subhunter sometimes. Uef atlantis also totally wrecks subhunter, even though they need some more practice (Instead of having one attack-move command) they are way more effective.

Statistics: Posted by D4E_Omit — 20 Jan 2014, 08:37