Forged Alliance Forever

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-18T16:20:41+02:00

ya the game length should not affect the rating outcome.

Statistics: Posted by Mr-Smith — 18 Nov 2013, 16:20

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-18T09:09:51+02:00

ah, sorry, i just read couple more times, and i think game lenght or map size should not affect rating, only rating difference and game outcome, However probability of a draw is much less on bigger maps, so i actually have no idea

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 18 Nov 2013, 09:09

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-18T08:48:29+02:00

ZLO_RD wrote:
so whole topic was made about how 1v1 should sffect global rating?

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 18 Nov 2013, 08:48

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-18T07:22:58+02:00

so whole topic was made about how 1v1 should sffect global rating? Basicly i agree with mozart that things are fine, and i also alreday feel so overrated when i play teamgames xD. So yea i would say it affects enought, at least it how it looks for me, and even if person only playing rankeds he getting global rating pretty fast.

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 18 Nov 2013, 07:22

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-18T05:15:37+02:00

rootbeer23 wrote:
you are right. the game time is not a good meter stick. it should be the map size or the average game time from past ladder games.

skwoll are you saying you didnt read the thread?

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 18 Nov 2013, 05:15

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-18T05:04:31+02:00

This would encourage players to control k quickly after they think they have lost.

Statistics: Posted by Swkoll — 18 Nov 2013, 05:04

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-18T03:53:09+02:00

How good was epiphany?

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 18 Nov 2013, 03:53

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-17T23:56:03+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
It could be abused so easily, playing only big maps, or protracting the length of the game on purpose to cheat the rating system. This in turn would transform ranked, to hour-long cases, diminishing your number of daily games and interactions. It could ultimately discourage a vital and very active part of players that play ranked and possibly to the death of ladder; and death of competitive play is death of a game whether you want to admit it or not.

Unlikely, too much risk.

What the ladder needs is a stat reset. Too many vestiges from unpopulated ladder, sequence, crude, not representive of trueskill of ladder. Non-performers occupy prime spots on ladder.

No reset will be done or is needed. A 1v1 is a 1v1, whatever the system behind, so these trueskill rating are correct and representative.

If you want a dynamic system, that what the league system is for. Trueskill isn't meant to move a lot through time.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 17 Nov 2013, 23:56

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-17T22:57:54+02:00

the ladder has been heavily modified recently, and I think we all agree its now much much nicer! thankyou Zep and Co.
a brief drama, but now something that is working fine, and mostly accepted by players I think.
id hope we can have some stability in the ladder now, and see this system used for all of 2014.

would be nice if we could avoid any further changes to the ladder now, and focus development in other areas.

FireMessiah,
a happy ladder player

Statistics: Posted by FireMessiah — 17 Nov 2013, 22:57

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-17T22:16:55+02:00

It could be abused so easily, playing only big maps, or protracting the length of the game on purpose to cheat the rating system. This in turn would transform ranked, to hour-long cases, diminishing your number of daily games and interactions. It could ultimately discourage a vital and very active part of players that play ranked and possibly to the death of ladder; and death of competitive play is death of a game whether you want to admit it or not.

Unlikely, too much risk.

What the ladder needs is a stat reset. Too many vestiges from unpopulated ladder, sequence, crude, not representive of trueskill of ladder. Non-performers occupy prime spots on ladder.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 17 Nov 2013, 22:16

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-17T18:35:47+02:00

" I may be a little slow... but i just had an epiphany!
if the 1v1 map is large, or alternatively the game is long no matter the map size, the trueskill rating should be affected more. makes sense, doesnt it?"

I could try to be charming or trolling, but not this time. So, to the point....
No, it would be bad and that's an understatement.
It could be abused so easily, playing only big maps, or protracting the length of the game on purpose to cheat the rating system. This in turn would transform ranked, to hour-long cases, diminishing your number of daily games and interactions. It could ultimately discourage a vital and very active part of players that play ranked and possibly to the death of ladder; and death of competitive play is death of a game whether you want to admit it or not.

I may understand what you have thought about anyway, in a sense that on bigger maps, there are theoretically more threat points, capacity to deploy revolutionary strategy and tactics.But I think it's impossible for a rating system to evaluate such qualitative aspects of gameplay, so this is another major reason it is not a good idea.

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 17 Nov 2013, 18:35

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-17T17:06:18+02:00

The simpler solution is almost always the best one, and it's the one currently implemented. I don't see any reason to change it.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 17 Nov 2013, 17:06

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-17T14:43:11+02:00

Nombringer wrote:
True mozart, also a longer game means you were more evenly matched, not that it should be worth more rating to winner.

you are right. the game time is not a good meter stick. it should be the map size or the average game time from past ladder games.

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 17 Nov 2013, 14:43

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-17T12:58:04+02:00

True mozart, also a longer game means you were more evenly matched, not that it should be worth more rating to winner.

Eh, tbh I dont think rating system needs any change at all. Its good how it is.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 17 Nov 2013, 12:58

Re: map size in the ladder

2013-11-17T12:57:11+02:00

bigger maps are just that: bigger. you build units and you shoot at units.
anyway, if you think it is about "rewarding" a "play style", then you should be in favour. someone who plays better on small maps
than on big maps gets more points than the opposite kind of player with the current situation.

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 17 Nov 2013, 12:57