Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-29T06:23:23+02:00

And that RAS usually takes the place of personal shield / nano-repair / cloak

Since I was a sniped a few times I pass on the RAS, or at the very least replace is later on.

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 29 Oct 2013, 06:23

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-29T05:58:14+02:00

Another good thing to remember is that unless your economy is in complete isolation, like seton's, a lot of your economy will be reactive.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 29 Oct 2013, 05:58

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-29T04:41:53+02:00

BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
Firewall, most of what you posted there is a really bad idea.... even for the most taxing eco game, some would say air on setons fills that postition, you only need three t2 gens tops before going RAS, and it is possible to do it on two if you have a lot of reclaiming going on. P-gens around your mex is a tossup at the t1-t2 stage, and you have to balance out whether or not you will have the build power nearby to quickly reclaim the pgens and rebuild storage. Then there is the fact that if you have pgens around your mex, you will lose 4 gens and a mex to two t1 bombers in one pass, instead of 3-4 bombers for a single mex by itself.

The list you provided is HIGHLY circumstantial..... best stick to the basics that fit 90% of scenarios.

-> all t1 mex claimed
-> all t2 mex upgraded that are safe
-> either cap your mex if you are in an ongoing fight, or rush t2 gens and RAS then cap if you are going full eco
-> all t3 mex
-> fabricators

BRINKoINSANITY thanks for your comments. I will take some of them onboard. But eco whoring is actually quite complicated.
Of course my comment was circumstantial. The circumstances which I am assuming are full eco development without military contact.

Also, I realise that my list was intepreted as a chronological sequence. In truth, it is much more complicated. Because there is a energy development path and a mass development path. Both of which happen concurrently. In truth, I will be constructing the T2 pgens and getting RAS when 50% of my mexes are T2. Eco whoring requires flawless timing and execution. Which I have yet to fully perfect.

The mass path is as follows:
1. T1 mex claimed
2. factories spamming engineers for reclaim
3. Upgrade to T2 mex, 1 by 1. (start with the initial 4, and assist)
4. Once you have 4 T2 mex, it is then possible to upgrade 2 by 2. Or even 3 by 3.
(This is a soft rule it depends of engineers not being local to the mexes.)
5. Surround all T2 mex with storage.
6. Upgrade to T3 mex 1 by 1.
(Caveat# Mexes in vunerable locations should be left at T1)

The energy path is as follows:
1. Cap the hydro if you have one
2. Build initial T1 power (total 10) around initial upgrading mexes
(This is important on high initial reclaim maps...early energy is at a premium)
3. Build 2 or 3 T2 Pgens (I generally build no more than 12 T1 pgens).
4. Get ACU RAS
5. Reclaim T1 and T2 pgens
6. Build T3 Pgens

The real trick is in combining the two paths to achieve the desired outcome. Over investment in one leads to a lack in the other. Mass is naturally the priority. But mass production cannot be increased without power. So, the smart eco player will build just enough power and only when it is required.

My reasoning for surrounding upgrading mexes with T1 power was to limit myself to 12 T1 pgens +hydro. Which usually means I need 4 T2 pgens. If you are saying it can be done with 3 T2, I will try it. But I haven't tested it.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 29 Oct 2013, 04:41

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-29T04:16:43+02:00

E8400-CV wrote:
Where can you set to disable fabricators when you run low on power ???

UI mass Fab manager. You can download it from mod vault .

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 29 Oct 2013, 04:16

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-29T04:08:15+02:00

Apofenas wrote:
Firewall wrote:12. Build a Quantum Gateway, build SCU's, get engineering upgrade and RAS.

13. Invest in fighting units at this point. Fabricators will only give a marginal return on investment.

BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
The storage around a mex is better than fabs for upgrading. On a t2 mex the storage gives you +3 production, so you have to count that against the discount you get, and additionally you have to reclaim the fabs and build storage for your 50% bonus on the t3 mex, and if you assist the upgrade you lose your bonus........ all in all unless you do it perfectly and take your time, you don't gain much or any mass, and in view of the rest of the game it is a totally worthless procedure.

Fabs actually aren't that useless. If you are going to use your ACU in battles a lot, you need to over make power to have a constant overcharge. That means that most likely you will waste a lot of power. Fab UI becomes very usefull at that moment. You build small number of t2 fabs (3-4), make such settings, so UI disables your fabs when you have, for example, less than 5500 power in storage and enables them when the storage is almost full. This bonus and adjacency bonus are small, but having 20-30% of your first t3 mex for free is always nice.

Where can you set to disable fabricators when you run low on power ???

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 29 Oct 2013, 04:08

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-29T03:33:09+02:00

I was not saying fabs have no use.... they are after t3 mex, and more efficient than sACU RAS. I was saying it is pointless to use them for an eco discount on upgrading mex.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 29 Oct 2013, 03:33

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-29T02:29:08+02:00

Firewall wrote:
12. Build a Quantum Gateway, build SCU's, get engineering upgrade and RAS.

13. Invest in fighting units at this point. Fabricators will only give a marginal return on investment.

BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
The storage around a mex is better than fabs for upgrading. On a t2 mex the storage gives you +3 production, so you have to count that against the discount you get, and additionally you have to reclaim the fabs and build storage for your 50% bonus on the t3 mex, and if you assist the upgrade you lose your bonus........ all in all unless you do it perfectly and take your time, you don't gain much or any mass, and in view of the rest of the game it is a totally worthless procedure.

Fabs actually aren't that useless. If you are going to use your ACU in battles a lot, you need to over make power to have a constant overcharge. That means that most likely you will waste a lot of power. Fab UI becomes very usefull at that moment. You build small number of t2 fabs (3-4), make such settings, so UI disables your fabs when you have, for example, less than 5500 power in storage and enables them when the storage is almost full. This bonus and adjacency bonus are small, but having 20-30% of your first t3 mex for free is always nice.

Then at t3-t4 stage fabs are usefull al well. One t3 fab has adjacency bonus of 20% (or so), so building one and surrounding it with land factories or quantum gates means, that every sixth unit you got from there, was for free.

Then about SCUs. Economy wise, RAS on them is actually a bit less efficient than t3 pgen and 16 t2 fabs (i'm not speaking about unit cap or vulnerability,...) and seraphim SCUs haven't this upgrade at all. I think that SCUs are more like battle engineers, so having them on base is a waste. But having your SCUs with RAS on front isn't actually worth it: you can easily loose them and you won't be able to get mass back. Engineering suit isn't actually worth it as well. It changes building rate from 56 to 98 for 1k mass and 50k energy, so having 8-9 t1 engineers is for sure cheaper.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 29 Oct 2013, 02:29

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-29T00:46:46+02:00

Firewall, most of what you posted there is a really bad idea.... even for the most taxing eco game, some would say air on setons fills that postition, you only need three t2 gens tops before going RAS, and it is possible to do it on two if you have a lot of reclaiming going on. P-gens around your mex is a tossup at the t1-t2 stage, and you have to balance out whether or not you will have the build power nearby to quickly reclaim the pgens and rebuild storage. Then there is the fact that if you have pgens around your mex, you will lose 4 gens and a mex to two t1 bombers in one pass, instead of 3-4 bombers for a single mex by itself.

The list you provided is HIGHLY circumstantial..... best stick to the basics that fit 90% of scenarios.

-> all t1 mex claimed
-> all t2 mex upgraded that are safe
-> either cap your mex if you are in an ongoing fight, or rush t2 gens and RAS then cap if you are going full eco
-> all t3 mex
-> fabricators

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 29 Oct 2013, 00:46

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-28T07:56:42+02:00

T3 Fabricators are nice to surround with four factories. That way they are totally worth it

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 28 Oct 2013, 07:56

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-28T04:05:25+02:00

1. Cap all T1 mex.
2. Build as many T1 engies as required for reclaim.
3. Surround the first few mexes with T1 power. To reduce the early power draw for the T2 upgrade.
4. Upgrade mex, one at a time, to T2
5. After the first few mexes, they can be upgraded 2 by 2. If you are in danger of floating mass, set engineers to assist, or set more mexes to upgrade.
6. Build enough T1 power to get you into the T2 phase, but not too much
7. Get a T2 factory and T2 engineer
8. Build 4 T2 pgens.
9. Get RAS on your ACU. Reclaim your T1 power at this point and start building T3 power. When your power is healthy, reclaim your T2 power as well.
10. Surround T2 mex with storage.
11. Set all your T2 mexes to upgrade to T3 one by one.
12. Build a Quantum Gateway, build SCU's, get engineering upgrade and RAS.

13. Invest in fighting units at this point. Fabricators will only give a marginal return on investment.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 28 Oct 2013, 04:05

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-27T14:38:58+02:00

Snakeb1te wrote:
Energy storage has quite a small explosion radius now doesn't it? I was under the impression it had been nerfed, thus allowing it to be constructed nearer to things now.

P.S. thanks for all the responses.

Damage got reduced, AOE is still gigantic.

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 27 Oct 2013, 14:38

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-25T08:13:31+02:00

Upgrading the mexes one by one depends on the situation. If i'm suddenly floating in mass (like after a large battle) then I start upgrading as many as I can (if I don't have the BP to do anything else with it).

Statistics: Posted by Cuddles — 25 Oct 2013, 08:13

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-25T06:29:13+02:00

The storage around a mex is better than fabs for upgrading. On a t2 mex the storage gives you +3 production, so you have to count that against the discount you get, and additionally you have to reclaim the fabs and build storage for your 50% bonus on the t3 mex, and if you assist the upgrade you lose your bonus........ all in all unless you do it perfectly and take your time, you don't gain much or any mass, and in view of the rest of the game it is a totally worthless procedure.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 25 Oct 2013, 06:29

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-25T04:55:33+02:00

Sorry, for some reason I thought that t2 upgrade costs 720. But still it's a bit more efficient than storages. Actually, mass wise, t2 fabricator is good if you use its adjacency bonus. It's small - about 13%, but if you surround t2 mex with such and start upgrade, you'll get +7 mass total (+4 basic and +3 adjacency).

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 25 Oct 2013, 04:55

Re: Most efficient way to upgrade economy?

2013-10-25T03:48:20+02:00

CrayzyNath wrote:
You should surround a t2 mex with storage right before you upgrade it to t3 because you basically get the storages for free.

What do you mean?

Statistics: Posted by Snakeb1te — 25 Oct 2013, 03:48