Forged Alliance Forever

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2014-01-05T02:00:50+02:00

according to my last twin rivers experience enemy can just eco while you make your t2 arty defence
so if you not denying enemy map controll with t2 arty it probably not worth much

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 05 Jan 2014, 02:00

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-15T13:24:04+02:00

Thanks for the good explanations!

The Megalith wouldn't bother being shot at with that. And he has really a great deviation with the cannons. maybe he can destroy the bot laying an egg?

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 15 Nov 2013, 13:24

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-12T11:43:48+02:00

Worst way to lose a megalith.

Statistics: Posted by errorblankfield — 12 Nov 2013, 11:43

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-12T06:01:45+02:00

I am sorry if I ask you something after giving me such a nice answer, but what do you mean with: "Sometimes, elevation differentials can cause the unit not to fire, because the cannon cannot deflect far enough."

What I mean by this is if, say, you have an artillery piece at the top of a cliff and an enemy at the bottom of the cliff. The turret will not fire because it cannot aim. A turret has limitations on its vertical movement specified within the blueprint. In that situation a T1 PD would be more effective than T2 PD or Arty, because, it has a greater range of deflection. Another good example is a Mech Marine standing next to a Megalith. The Megalith cannons do not have the range of movement required to shoot it.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 12 Nov 2013, 06:01

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-11T04:19:11+02:00

What he means by the cannon cannot deflect is that the turret can't aim up or down enough or even rotate far enough. A good example is the turrets on the battleship or fatboy cannot turn all the way around but in reference to T2 arty its in the vertical sense rather than horizontal

Statistics: Posted by Deering — 11 Nov 2013, 04:19

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-11T04:19:23+02:00

rxnnxs wrote:
someting i want to throw in even futher is: T2 Arty would be worth much more, if they were switchable from direct to indirect fire!

They would doubtless be worth much more, but that idea has problems.

To start, the models are clearly not designed to shoot that way. The barrels point out sideways, not up, even at their highest elevation. Also, that role is taken by T3 mobile arty. Let a player do it at T2 and there's even less incentive to build an already niche unit.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 11 Nov 2013, 04:18

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-11T00:02:03+02:00

Firewall wrote:
rxnnxs wrote:can noone tell me here if the height is affecting the range slightly?

No it doesn't. The game engine applies a simple distance criteria when deciding whether or not the unit can fire. Which is unaffected by elevation differential. However, the projectile path will require the turret to deflect to aim. Sometimes, elevation differentials can cause the unit not to fire, because the cannon cannot deflect far enough.

An interesting idea is to aim for the ground within firing range. Then rely on firing in-accuracy to send the occasional shot beyond range. Another trick build artillery behind a tall hill. Then ground fire on the apex of that hill. Occasionally you get high shots, which can travel over insane distances.

Thank you for your response!
It is an interesting point you have here (talking about overshooting a hill when aiming at it and the projectile misses the hill and travels faster).
But it is not really useful because the bullet goes unpredictable into somewhere..
I found out in former days that shooting with a bertha (in Total Annihilation i mean!!) or some other projectile cannon at the front of the gun also did that effect: the gun fired loong distances!

I am sorry if I ask you someting after giving me such a nice answer, but what do you mean with: "Sometimes, elevation differentials can cause the unit not to fire, because the cannon cannot deflect far enough."
If you mean that a gun is not shootin at all, it would be new to me. what was a "bug" or whatever right from the start of the game, was the inability to calculate the probability to hit the target. i mean, a cerberus laser tower i.e. is shoting like hell in the hill, units fire endlessly against enemy units, all firing in the ground.. so, i do not understand what you say here, because the calculation if a shell is fired or not, is not calclated, they just shoot (and then the game calculates where the shot (when travelling its path) is going (i remember the high exaggeration of this feature in former (and todays) days)).

and by the way: is there a way to put a height gainage for projectiles in the game?
and even more off topic: i know it is discussed in PA already.. and if the units decide to travel to a better spot for better shooting purposes.

someting i want to throw in even futher is: T2 Arty would be worth much more, if they were switchable from direct to indirect fire!

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 11 Nov 2013, 00:02

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-08T15:41:19+02:00

Poch wrote:
Ok i didn't bother reading the last 3 pages, but for people wondering about the effect of power gens on artillery fire rate, just look at this 30 second video, everything is in it : http://vimeo.com/60211860. I don't think it changed those last few months.

As you can see with t1 pgen the RoF increase is not neglectible.

About someone saying power gens are wasted space because you should glue artys in tight packs, i would answer that considering their price even if you don't surround them with t1 pgens (which is stupid), you should'nt stick them together. You don't want an ennemy arty shot to kill 4 of your 2k-per-piece artys in one shot, do you ? (same goes for all PDs actually)

This video shows that it works at intended. You can also combine a t2 or t3 pgen + 2 t2 arties and finish adjacency with t1 pgens. It's a good layout when you have a shield linked to a t2/t3 pgen and you then use the outward side of the pgen for the arties.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 08 Nov 2013, 15:41

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-08T15:39:41+02:00

Mmm yeah that makes sense actually. But usually you build arty because there is dangerous stuff that can fire back facing it. (like ships, T2 arties or T3 mobile arties). And let's face it : shields go down from time to time ! So getting fired at should be considered. Even if you dont surround them with pgens, i'd recommend to space them just a little bit to avoid losing them too easily to any lucky AoE shot coming at it.

Statistics: Posted by Poch — 08 Nov 2013, 15:39

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-08T15:37:47+02:00

I think the point those people were getting at is that in a situation where you would need t2 arty you will be under a shield which has limited space and it may not be cost effective to build new shields to allow your arty to have t1 pgens around them.

Statistics: Posted by Swkoll — 08 Nov 2013, 15:37

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-08T15:33:43+02:00

Ok i didn't bother reading the last 3 pages, but for people wondering about the effect of power gens on artillery fire rate, just look at this 30 second video, everything is in it : http://vimeo.com/60211860. I don't think it changed those last few months.

As you can see with t1 pgen the RoF increase is not neglectible.

About someone saying power gens are wasted space because you should glue artys in tight packs, i would answer that considering their price even if you don't surround them with t1 pgens (which is stupid), you should'nt stick them together. You don't want an ennemy arty shot to kill 4 of your 2k-per-piece artys in one shot, do you ? (same goes for all PDs actually)

Statistics: Posted by Poch — 08 Nov 2013, 15:33

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-06T05:57:56+02:00

rxnnxs wrote:
can noone tell me here if the height is affecting the range slightly?

No it doesn't. The game engine applies a simple distance criteria when deciding whether or not the unit can fire. Which is unaffected by elevation differential. However, the projectile path will require the turret to deflect to aim. Sometimes, elevation differentials can cause the unit not to fire, because the cannon cannot deflect far enough.

An interesting idea is to aim for the ground within firing range. Then rely on firing in-accuracy to send the occasional shot beyond range. Another trick build artillery behind a tall hill. Then ground fire on the apex of that hill. Occasionally you get high shots, which can travel over insane distances.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 06 Nov 2013, 05:57

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-11-06T00:39:55+02:00

can noone tell me here if the height is affecting the range slightly?

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 06 Nov 2013, 00:39

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-10-14T08:57:27+02:00

it takes to take out a strat sub is a spy plane and 5 torpedo bombers.

Statistics: Posted by shayanjameel08 — 14 Oct 2013, 08:57

Re: When is T2 arty actually worth it?

2013-10-11T19:48:45+02:00

Now I have one question that is quite clear, but i had a replay from gyle wher he says that there is a height differenital.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHjjuqZkCJs&t=23m10s
somewhere in this thread I remember ( i thing though WRONG), that there is actually a height differential.
but i tested it, and i say NO.
And i was very sad when i first palyed FA because TA had this and it was good.

and here is a nice thread in Planetary Annihilation about height and range:
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/range-rings.42732/

can you guys second that it is NOT working or is it somehow a hidden usage?
i placed for instance two arties on different heights and let them shoot.
the range circle did not change of course but i htought maybe it still works and in former days i did not check THAT.
so i went on ground fire and dragged the reticule further away...
but it was deleted from the engine..
the i placed enemies out of the ring. the gun did not shoot. SO, there is really no height bonus when placed on a hill.
is that right?

that was kind of off topic but if there would be such a height gain, it would be really a PLUS for T2 Arty...

but for the threadstarter i can say, the arties are not really that good, also not good against a moving UEF facility, but if you spread them around your base and have always air scouts around your base, the enemy will stop building units. maybe even has a brain blockade... because nothing comes through, except BIG units

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 11 Oct 2013, 19:48