Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-14T22:41:33+02:00

It's satisfying to pull of against somebody else and it's an entertaining aspect of watching matches. I say it's fun. I know that's a matter of perspective though.

Statistics: Posted by BLITZ_Molloy — 14 Sep 2013, 22:41

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-13T00:03:56+02:00

Re-calculating the path (if it is indeed recalculating the path) should happen in on game cycle though, shouldn't it? That shouldn't be contributing to any "delay" in the sim itself.

Whether or not it's causing the ACU to have to re-target, I'm not sure. I'd like to watch the replay when I get home before I argue about that. Seems like you'd be able to overcome the re-targeting issue by manually targeting units, maybe. If the bumping is throwing off the ACU's aim physically, well, that's part of the game I suppose.

Just my 2 cents.

Statistics: Posted by shifty — 13 Sep 2013, 00:03

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-11T02:37:53+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
The order itself wouldn't be disrupted, only everytime the ACU is bumped he recalculates his path, which causes a delay which can stop the acu firing.

When the ACU is bumped it is physically displaced. Which means that the cannon would need to re-aim. Or otherwise it would miss its target. I believe most of the delays were a combination of this, and the ACU pathfinding causing a change in direction. The ACU torso slew rate is quite slow. Which means that if the legs are turning away from the shot the ACU may not aquire the target (and therefore not fire).

The only way to test your hypothesis would be to use a mod showing the firing clock for the ACU. If bumping resets the firing clock, then it is a bug. If the firing clock reaches 100%, with the ACU torso still slewing, this is expected behaviour.

There was nothing untoward about your replay. The expected result occured. You might have been able to get more kills and perhaps veterancy. But appropriate micro was not employed to counter the bumping tactic. Even with appropriate micro, and overcharge, your ACU could not have won that engagement.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 11 Sep 2013, 02:37

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-10T16:19:36+02:00

Except for whether we should ban this as an exploit now.

Let the flame wars begin!

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 10 Sep 2013, 16:19

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-10T14:29:02+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
Mycen wrote:then I see no reason why this should not be treated the same way.

Because it's probably impossible to fix without access to the source code of the engine.

Well that's a pretty good reason! Well I suppose there's not really much discussion to be had then, is there...

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 10 Sep 2013, 14:29

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-10T15:01:27+02:00

It's not what it used to be. The exploit was getting past the reload timer , which I understand cannot be done now.

The order itself wouldn't be disrupted, only everytime the ACU is bumped he recalculates his path, which causes a delay which can stop the acu firing.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 10 Sep 2013, 13:58

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-10T11:13:25+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
...you will notice that ACU stops firing whilst being bumped. That's right bumping an acu breaks its order chain, ...

I watched your replay. Your observation was correct, but, you conclusion is not. Holding down the shift key, while the battle is in progress, you will clearly see that there was no interuption to the move command. Bumping might have influenced your ACU's ability to execute that command. But the command itself was not interupted, so, it is not a bug.

The reason why bumping interupts the firing cycle is because the ACU was being pushed and rotated. Everytime this happens the ACU needs to re-aim the cannon before it can fire. Bumping pushes the ACU cannon's aim outside of firing tolerance and the need to re-aim causes a delay in firing. This is not a bug. It is physical simulation at work.

I would recommed stopping the move command and telling the ACU to target units further away. Which would mitigate the re-aiming delay. Alternatively, if you had OC cannon, I would recommend OC'ing the clusters of bumping units.

Also, the word esconse means, " to establish or settle (someone) in a comfortable, safe, or secret place". I would argue that Bumping does the exact opposite.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 10 Sep 2013, 11:13

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-10T08:14:18+02:00

Mycen wrote:
then I see no reason why this should not be treated the same way.

Because it's probably impossible to fix without access to the source code of the engine.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 10 Sep 2013, 08:14

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-10T06:25:36+02:00

Anaryl wrote:
That's why people multidropped and mercied, and generally whore every imbalance they can find for an advantage.

This is what I was going to comment on. Or did multidropping get removed at some point? (I never used it, so I don't know.) If multidropping is/was considered an exploit that was removed, then I see no reason why this should not be treated the same way. If multidropping has been left alone, I see no reason why this should not be treated the same way.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 10 Sep 2013, 06:25

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-10T02:05:09+02:00

prodromos wrote:
Maybe delaying the firing of the ACU is an exploit, but I don't think it dies because of this. It dies because it is immobilised and receives fire from 36o degrees. Its range advantage is cancelled and can be shot by anything the enemy has, that fires.
So, it's already dead; with this "bug", it happens a little faster.
( I have been bumped and have bumped, so I have experienced both sides of the coin).

But whether he would have died or not is not the question. I think the question is: since this is a bug, can we fix it?

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 10 Sep 2013, 02:05

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-09T23:36:58+02:00

Maybe delaying the firing of the ACU is an exploit, but I don't think it dies because of this. It dies because it is immobilised and receives fire from 36o degrees. Its range advantage is cancelled and can be shot by anything the enemy has, that fires.
So, it's already dead; with this "bug", it happens a little faster.
( I have been bumped and have bumped, so I have experienced both sides of the coin).

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 09 Sep 2013, 23:36

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-09T23:27:50+02:00

Zock wrote:
if you cant kill it, reclaim it

I think the whole problem is if the unit is behind you, the ACU has to turn to attack it. Early game this can be fatal.

One man's exploit is another man's emergent gameplay.

The real question is: Does it improve gameplay? Open up new tactics? Make things more deep/fun?
It's irrelevant whether it's a bug or not.

That's not true at all in my opinion. Gamebreaking bugs and imbalances can be fun for some to use. That's why people multidropped and mercied, and generally whore every imbalance they can find for an advantage. That's why bugs are fixed. If the fire rate can be fixed without removing the blocking, we can have the best of both worlds here.

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 09 Sep 2013, 23:27

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-09T15:54:16+02:00

One man's exploit is another man's emergent gameplay.

The real question is: Does it improve gameplay? Open up new tactics? Make things more deep/fun?
It's irrelevant whether it's a bug or not.

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 09 Sep 2013, 15:54

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-09T15:00:41+02:00

if you cant kill it, reclaim it

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 09 Sep 2013, 15:00

Re: Is bumping an exploit? The answer may surprise you.

2013-09-09T14:39:09+02:00

Yes, I should say it's not unitblocking in principle, but if it's causing a bug, we should fix it.

What makes you suspect it's the targeting code/how would you suggest a fix or where to look?

Statistics: Posted by Anaryl — 09 Sep 2013, 14:39