Forged Alliance Forever

Re: King of map idea

2013-09-14T12:37:44+02:00

We already have an excellent system to rank players: trueskill. I don't know how technically feasible this is, but it would be ideal if the king of map was determined based on trueskill rating but determined only by matches on that map (just like ladder 1v1 rating is determined only by ladder matches). This system would also allow us to have king of multiplayer matches, like king of canis 4v4, king of setons 4v4, king of thermo, king of survival, etc. This would engage a much larger portion of the community. It would also be automatic, which means Voodoo doesn't need to spend so much time on it. However, somebody with the technical skills would need to make a time investment to implement it.

Statistics: Posted by Cantor — 14 Sep 2013, 12:37

Re: King of map idea

2013-09-14T03:09:27+02:00

I don't think it's very likely, but at 1 challenge per day and 2 denies per week could mean a required 15 games/week spread out over 5 days. Am I understanding right? I think it would be difficult for some people to make that much time to play. Possibly 1 challenge per day but you can deny 4? That's still 9 games. Obviously still surrender your title if you don't take at least 1 per week.

Another idea: put challenges in a queue and order the queue by closeness in ranking to the king. The king has to play 1 match per week and can also reject 1 challenge and remove it from the queue. For example, king has a 1000 ranking and is challenged by player A (700 rank), B (1200 rank), and C (1300 rank). The queue order would be B, A, C. The king can reject B and play A. If he wins his queue for next week is just C unless someone else challenges. He can only accept or reject the first person in the queue.

To prevent the same people always being at the front of the queue you cannot challenge two weeks in a row. This gives the king some choice but also forces him to play players close to his skill to keep it competitive.

Maybe to encourage people to take more challenges there can be a hall of fame that keeps tracks of challenges won?

Statistics: Posted by Retnut — 14 Sep 2013, 03:09

Re: King of map idea

2013-09-13T14:18:37+02:00

So with yesterday's matches king of map thingy has officialy begun. Only thing we need now is final set of rules. And moar avatars

Also i had another idea regarding tourney format.
How about this: BO3, but limit to 1 challenge per day. You can deny 2 challengres a week, 3rd deny means you have to give your title to that player (but im not sure how good this part is).

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 13 Sep 2013, 14:18

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T16:12:23+02:00

But the old system has the same problem. You have to win it in a normal ko tourney which means you have to play the map ~5 times in a row.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 29 Aug 2013, 16:12

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T15:44:47+02:00

That is the old system. We don't have enough tournament directors for it.

I happy to help if needed, i'm just doing nothing because now reddev does a tourney every week.

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 29 Aug 2013, 15:44

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T14:59:08+02:00

At the end, i have to do the work. And i don't want a system where i have to look every week over all players.
My system works without anything, they will play and recieve the avatar when they pm me. It's way easier.

What work? Its up to the players to play each other. No need to look over anyone. If they don't play, they don't get points, their problem.

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 29 Aug 2013, 14:59

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T14:52:52+02:00

Zock wrote:
All people who want to challange must gather wins against each other. Every player you defeat there will give you 1 point, player with most points is challanger for next week. You can't defeat someone twice.

This is a bit complicated, but should give the most accurate result of who is most qualified as challanger. The 1 point per win is to encourage the qualified people to play each other without anyone having to manage it.

The number of people in this pool shouldn't be too high for this to work, if it is the case it might be limited by something like wins on the map in the last 7 days.

At the end, i have to do the work. And i don't want a system where i have to look every week over all players.
My system works without anything, they will play and recieve the avatar when they pm me. It's way easier.

Zock wrote:
additional to whatever system will be used it would be nice to have a regular king of map tournement each week. The map would change each week, the winner will be either the new challanger, an additional challanger to the normal one, or becomes directly king of map.

That is the old system. We don't have enough tournament directors for it.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 29 Aug 2013, 14:52

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T14:34:23+02:00

Without any sort of qualification for the challanger and only one or more random challangers per week it won't really be a representative king of map.

So alternative idea:

All people who want to challange must gather wins against each other. Every player you defeat there will give you 1 point, player with most points is challanger for next week. You can't defeat someone twice.

This is a bit complicated, but should give the most accurate result of who is most qualified as challanger. The 1 point per win is to encourage the qualified people to play each other without anyone having to manage it.

The number of people in this pool shouldn't be too high for this to work, if it is the case it might be limited by something like wins on the map in the last 7 days.

additional to whatever system will be used it would be nice to have a regular king of map tournement each week. The map would change each week, the winner will be either the new challanger, an additional challanger to the normal one, or becomes directly king of map.

And BO1 is too random, voting for bo3 if you want to be the king of setons you should be willing to play it 3 times per week.

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 29 Aug 2013, 14:34

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T13:53:35+02:00

Yes if i think on a map like Setons Clutch ... i also don't want to play it 3 times in a row.

So what about BO1 and also only one challenge per week?
Think about it, this system could be run over years. So all will have a chance.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 29 Aug 2013, 13:53

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T13:24:32+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
Only an example. Let's say you have to defend it 3 times per week. So you have to play 3 BO3 games. So it's possible that you have to play the map 9 times a week. And if you want it for one months, then it could be possible that you have to play the map 36 times in one months ... thats realy what you want?

Yes, you have the point here. But lets consider other options as well.

First of all, with this number of games BO3 will be kinda tiring to play. For me, even 3 games on the same map in a row is like... omg i dont want this anymore, so repeatative and boring as hell How about BO1? Assuming you are the king, then you are playing very exceptional and outstanding on this map. If not, then someone else who is, deserves to be the king. But the con is, that avatars can change owners very often. Though its ok with me, the thing will be less static

Or else, you could limit number of challenges to 2 and it will be 6 BO3 games per week. But to be honets, thats a lot too. I'd personally prefer it to be BO1.

Or we can come up with weird rule like, the challenger needs to score 2 consecutive wins to take the title. And if you succesfully defend at least once, gg no re cya next week

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 29 Aug 2013, 13:24

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T13:02:59+02:00

Mad`Mozart wrote:
Oh and also, who are the current owners of avatars?
I know only Petric has king of theta, but others? Its hard to find them cause some people may have king of map ava but use another.

Only 2 or 3 are given out. I will check this before we start.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 29 Aug 2013, 13:02

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T12:59:14+02:00

Mad`Mozart wrote:
With that, it is quite possible now for top 5 players to grab all the king avatars and hold them forever. Especially if they can defend against one challenger a week and deny all others. Seems unfair for the rest of the players.
In my opinion, the number of king avatars should be limited. Now we have only 8 and this is way smaller than the number of active players that will want to participate in this kind of challenge. So pls limit it to 1 ava per player?

The top 5 players are lazy bastards, i know this
You can have a look on the wwpc if you don't believe me.

Mad`Mozart wrote:
Next, i also find current system abusable. You defend against one player and deny all others for the rest of the week. Thats not really what a king should be like, he needs to prove he is worth the title How about changing the number from 1 to 2 or 3 challenges and after that you can safely deny other players if you want? Because 1 now is the rule, and if it can be abused, it will be at some point. Yes, its hard to avoid, but lets make it less abuse favorable at least.

Only an example. Let's say you have to defend it 3 times per week. So you have to play 3 BO3 games. So it's possible that you have to play the map 9 times a week. And if you want it for one months, then it could be possible that you have to play the map 36 times in one months ... thats realy what you want?

Mad`Mozart wrote:
And last, how many maps do you plan to add? And what's more important for me (and for others i hope), what map avatars will be added? Can we influence this process and make suggestions?

No idea at the moment, we will see how it goes ...

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 29 Aug 2013, 12:59

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T11:56:55+02:00

Oh and also, who are the current owners of avatars?
I know only Petric has king of theta, but others? Its hard to find them cause some people may have king of map ava but use another.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 29 Aug 2013, 11:56

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T11:53:12+02:00

I think some aspects of the current system really need changes.

With that, it is quite possible now for top 5 players to grab all the king avatars and hold them forever. Especially if they can defend against one challenger a week and deny all others. Seems unfair for the rest of the players.

In my opinion, the number of king avatars should be limited. Now we have only 8 and this is way smaller than the number of active players that will want to participate in this kind of challenge. So pls limit it to 1 ava per player?

Next, i also find current system abusable. You defend against one player and deny all others for the rest of the week. Thats not really what a king should be like, he needs to prove he is worth the title How about changing the number from 1 to 2 or 3 challenges and after that you can safely deny other players if you want? Because 1 now is the rule, and if it can be abused, it will be at some point. Yes, its hard to avoid, but lets make it less abuse favorable at least.

And last, how many maps do you plan to add? And what's more important for me (and for others i hope), what map avatars will be added? Can we influence this process and make suggestions?

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 29 Aug 2013, 11:53

Re: King of map idea

2013-08-29T11:10:50+02:00

Everything is possible. The problem is time. I don't have much of it.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 29 Aug 2013, 11:10