Forged Alliance Forever

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T16:00:19+02:00

"It is actually a perfectly reasonable behaviour IMO. I don't mind loosing games to better players. But when I loose games to better players, who also happen to have a low score then I am bleeding hard won points. I need to win a lot of matches just to regain my ranking"

Above all else I do not judge you; this is the last thing I would want and I have little respect for those that are intolerant to human weaknesses.
Of course it is a reasonable behavior. Just as you find it reasonable, I find it reasonable, 1000 others find it reasonable; this is why it is unacceptable, at least in a competitive environment as the ladder. If everyone stops playing, for whatever perceived tactical reason the ladder will die.
This is the reason, I think , such conduct should not be allowed but have a cost in ranking. You do have a point about players that maybe smurfs, or simly underrated for whatever reason. But smurfs can't be that many(to be significant) and the rating of the underrated players could simply be adjusted. Or it could be done nothing, except punishing idle behavior. "Forcing" this way the majority of players to play would result in a rapid adjustment of their true skill due to the sheer explosion of the games played. The system Zep established is very efficient at doing this but it needs a significant statistical sample.

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 14 Aug 2013, 16:00

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T15:58:21+02:00

Firewall wrote:
If the object of competition is to maximise score and that objective is best achieved by NOT playing. Then logically. Taking a break from ranked play while everyone settles into the new season makes good tactical sense.

This is the problem. The 1v1 score is not meant to be, and should not be seen as an objective to maximise. It is meant to be a representation of a player's skill, a tool for finding an opponent with a similar skill level for creating a balanced and interesting game. This tool will function better if everyone just ignores it and tries not to manipulate their score, but instead just play the games for fun. It will function worse if many people are obsessed with their score and try to develop strategies, such as the one you described, to keep their score up. This will mean that the match making algorithm will not function as well as it could and people will be playing uneven and therofore uninteresting matches.

Maybe it would be best if the 1v1 score was not shown publicly anywhere. It would of course be nice if it could be shown and people would still not be obsessed about it, but since apparently this can not be achieved, maybe it should be hidden.

Statistics: Posted by Mafa — 14 Aug 2013, 15:58

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T15:44:14+02:00

IMHO looking at games you lost and why you lost them is much more important than actually playing more games.

Statistics: Posted by Swkoll — 14 Aug 2013, 15:44

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T15:02:11+02:00

To be honest if you're playing 200 games in a month then I think you're going to get high rated eventually. All that practice is going to pay off. I'm lazy so I only play maybe 30 a month.

Statistics: Posted by BLITZ_Molloy — 14 Aug 2013, 15:02

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T14:26:15+02:00

prodromos wrote:
Firewall you seem like a decent guy, but I fear, this kind of behavior is exatcly why scores will never bear closer correlation with skill. No matchmaking system could fix such behaviors.

It is actually a perfectly reasonable behaviour IMO. I don't mind loosing games to better players. But when I loose games to better players, who also happen to have a low score then I am bleeding hard won points. I need to win a lot of matches just to regain my ranking. Essentially, I'm getting smurfed.

If the object of competition is to maximise score and that objective is best achieved by NOT playing. Then logically. Taking a break from ranked play while everyone settles into the new season makes good tactical sense.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 14 Aug 2013, 14:26

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T10:29:46+02:00

Murzy wrote:
I don't think that the division you are in should affect the ladder searches, it feels like it has been like this since the new season started ...

Not at all. Was never the case, and will probably never be.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 14 Aug 2013, 10:29

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T10:13:46+02:00

Question. How the hell have you managed to play 200 games already!?

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 14 Aug 2013, 10:13

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T07:30:35+02:00

prodromos wrote:
Firewall you seem like a decent guy, but I fear, this kind of behavior is exatcly why scores will never bear closer correlation with skill. No matchmaking system could fix such behaviors.

Well it is.

As these players have an rather high deviation, their score is adapted greatly while yours won't budge a lot. Read the wiki for more infos.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 14 Aug 2013, 07:30

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T07:27:30+02:00

"One thing I have noticed is that I am getting beaten with a lot of players with inferiour 1v1 rank. Which I always found perplexing. Until I check their global ranking (after the game) and discover that their 1v1 rank is grossly under-rated. Probably caused by a lot of experienced players rejoining the ladder. I've taken a break from the 1v1 ladder. So that these players can level up at someone else's expense . I might rejoin 1v1 when scores bear closer correlation with skill."

Firewall you seem like a decent guy, but I fear, this kind of behavior is exatcly why scores will never bear closer correlation with skill. No matchmaking system could fix such behaviors.
This is why I am suggesting that people actually lose points after a period of inactivity or a false activity(i.e. always playing the same map.)
Since most of us seem pathologically in love with our rating, logic could not correct this situation. So use insanity....
(I am not excluding myself from these judgements).
P.S. What I was always finding perplexing, is how in hell I can't get proper 1v1 match during prime time!
What are all those dudes playing? Untill I checked.....

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 14 Aug 2013, 07:27

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T06:55:17+02:00

You mean you are in a T3 league and a division of a T3 league.
What is your global 1v1 score?
It has been changed since some months now(the criterion of positioning people into leagues), so that if it is 1200-1500 you 're t3.

Anyway if you lose a 1v1, you must lose points both from global 1v1( different than the ladder points) and the global skill level.If, on the other hand, you lose a custom ranked match your global skill level will go down and your global 1v1 will not be affected. You seem to suggest the opposite, which can't be(at least it hasn't happened to me), so something may actually be out of order.

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 14 Aug 2013, 06:55

Re: 1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T06:42:25+02:00

You shouldn't be too concerned with the loss % statistic. Being matched against a lot of superior players will mean your win % will naturally be low. But, your score will not be heavily affected. The scoring system takes into acount the mismatch.

One thing I have noticed is that I am getting beaten with a lot of players with inferiour 1v1 rank. Which I always found perplexing. Until I check their global ranking (after the game) and discover that their 1v1 rank is grossly under-rated. Probably caused by a lot of experienced players rejoining the ladder. I've taken a break from the 1v1 ladder. So that these players can level up at someone else's expense . I might rejoin 1v1 when scores bear closer correlation with skill.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 14 Aug 2013, 06:42

1v1 search system - how does it work, and is it broken?

2013-08-14T03:58:22+02:00

The problem is, since the new season started I have been in division 3 (dont know why). However, this is nowhere around my skill level and it feels like I am getting these ridiculous match ups because of this. During the new season I have played around 200 games and lost about 150 of them. The 50 victories have a lot of newcomers and such in them.

I am wondering does the 1v1 system use the divisions for player matching / and or the global rank instead of the 1v1 rank. For some reason my 1v1 rank has not gone down even when I have lost tons of games. And I mean literally HUNDREDS. Still ... I keep getting faced against opponents I cannot beat under any circumstances.

HOWEVER my global ranking has gone down over 200 units by all the losses, but the 1v1 ranking has stayed about the same. Why is this? I really think there is something wrong with the system.

Also, I do not think the system should match two players only because there are no other players searching games. It has happened to me multiple times that I play a game, it takes me a couple of minutes to see that I cannot win the game, and when I search for a new game I keep getting matched up with the same player again with a huge difference in both the global and ladder ranks.

I don't think that the division you are in should affect the ladder searches, it feels like it has been like this since the new season started ... and frankly there is NO FUN playing 1v1 for me anymore.

When I get this kind of matches 8-10 times in a row during a night, when I would just want to have one good game, there is nothing else to do than to draw the games like this http://faforever.com/faf/vault/replay_vault/replay.php?id=1199455 ... too bad this could be countered with CTRL+K'ing the pd...

Statistics: Posted by Murzy — 14 Aug 2013, 03:58