Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-23T16:25:27+02:00

Valki wrote:
In my opinion, the next tournament should expect activity problems and deal with it in the first stage of the tournament. One example to do this would be as follows:
The first phase should not be a pool phase but a ladder phase.
- For a win you get +3 points, a loss gets you +2 points, you may play up to 4 opponents per week each time getting points.
- Only the first 4 games of every week count.
- Over the entire ladder phase you may not play more than once against the same opponent
- Then the top 16 teams of the ladder go to the KO phase.

During the ladder phase teams are themselves responsible for choosing opponents.

This way, the most important thing you need to do to advance to round 2 is play matches as you get +2 points for that, and only +3 for winning. A nooby team might have no problem playing against Lu Xun because it means they at least get their +2 points. This way, I don't expect there will be problems letting people organise their matches - but by demanding it is repeated for 3 weeks the teams that cannot maintain activity will be low on the ladder.

For the ladder phase i would preset a specific map/rules every day (starting at 0:00 UTC). Maybe the same map/rules apply for different days.

Koecher wrote:
Also I think for further tourneys, you should tell teams to sign up with a team-captain. He's the one who talks to the other teamleader and set up the playtime. Also he is responsible for his team beeing around on the date to play. And he is the one you guys talk to if there is a problem. This way you fix the "I dont know when my mates are there" with a simple "I dont care, you are responsible for that, find a solution".

Thats the way it's handled in other team competitions, too. The captains must also report the results.

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 23 Jul 2013, 16:25

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-23T12:35:31+02:00

The tournament had the great idea to make it accessible to lower ranked players and had a great solution for that. Being the first tournament to involve those players, this problem could not easily have been expected.

I hope that in the future a new tournament could be organised, that learns from the mistakes of this one - because the idea was great.

I do not agree that the main problem was people from different regions, it certainly contributed, but to point to any such causes only risks this happening again. The main problem, I think, is that with people who play less often, you cannot count on their activity with each inactive person having a different reason for it.

In my opinion, the next tournament should expect activity problems and deal with it in the first stage of the tournament. One example to do this would be as follows:

The first phase should not be a pool phase but a ladder phase.
- For a win you get +3 points, a loss gets you +2 points, you may play up to 4 opponents per week each time getting points.
- Only the first 4 games of every week count.
- Over the entire ladder phase you may not play more than once against the same opponent
- Then the top 16 teams of the ladder go to the KO phase.

During the ladder phase teams are themselves responsible for choosing opponents.

This way, the most important thing you need to do to advance to round 2 is play matches as you get +2 points for that, and only +3 for winning. A nooby team might have no problem playing against Lu Xun because it means they at least get their +2 points. This way, I don't expect there will be problems letting people organise their matches - but by demanding it is repeated for 3 weeks the teams that cannot maintain activity will be low on the ladder.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 23 Jul 2013, 12:35

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-16T17:26:29+02:00

thanks for the feedback, i hope there will be some more

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 16 Jul 2013, 17:26

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-15T18:41:21+02:00

First of all, you do quite well considering that this is your first tourney.

I think one of your "problems" is, that you got a lot of "noobs" (infact, thats what you wanted to have). But they just dont have any experience on this. And you have a lot of unexperienced guys. IMO, its way harder to get the games aranged with this "handycap" than it would be with players knowing each other for years. I dont suggest to dont do something like that again, I just wanted to point that it makes things probably way more complicated.

Concerning the tourney: It became quite complicated. I mean, really, check out your own rules. To be honest, I'm far away from having an idea about all your rules. Mostly we just gone for "yeah, I think we do right...they'll tell us otherwhise for sure". It becomes even wost if you chance rules during the tourney. Even if the Veto thingy is a good idea, just keep it in queue for the next tourney! Otherwhise you'll creat even more confusion.

Also I think for further tourneys, you should tell teams to sign up with a team-captain. He's the one who talks to the other teamleader and set up the playtime. Also he is responsible for his team beeing around on the date to play. And he is the one you guys talk to if there is a problem. This way you fix the "I dont know when my mates are there" with a simple "I dont care, you are responsible for that, find a solution".

And some thing considering tourneys itself. You dont need to please everybody. If someone flame, he either stfu or can leave. If someone isnt around multiple aranged playtimes, well, then he just lost this round or got ejectec by the tourney. And so on. This way you mighe beein hated by someones, but it really makes you live easyer and the tourney run smoother.

Voodoo wrote:
I would realy prefer fixed times in the next tourney.

I disagree on this. If you would tell me: "only sign up if you are sure to be able to play (for example) every sunday evening", I wouldnt sign up. I'm not sure about you guys, but for myself, I just cant promise to be available on such a regular base; especially as kinda everything in RL got a higher "priority" than videogaming by default.

Therefor I think the signups will drop significant if you set a fiyed time, or the players just arent honestly enough when telling "sure, I'll be around this time every week".

Statistics: Posted by Koecher — 15 Jul 2013, 18:41

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-15T16:00:58+02:00

One thing that could help is if all the group stage games are posted at the same time. Rather than a week for round 1, week for round 2, etc., just have all the match-ups posted and then give a month to play. That way, people can figure out exactly which games they will be participating in based on the ratings, and can schedule them accordingly. Also, teams could get in contact with all their opponents right away and start scheduling. It'd allow for more flexibility.

In addition, we could use one of the many online scheduler things like http://www.doodle.com/ to try to arrange meetings. Each group could have its own little thing on a website or at least a google spreadsheet to get organized. I'd be willing to set that up for my group next time. In my group, at least, I feel like it was hard to get everyone communicating with each other at the same time. This isn't on the organizers, I think when the players themselves are signing up for this tournament they have to be ready to put in a little effort to make it work. If you don't care enough to schedule things, then you probably shouldn't sign up. So, I really think you guys did about as well as you could have with running the tournament. If you give all the group-stage matchups further in advance, and people are a little more organized/learn lessons from this tournament, I think we'd be set.

I'd encourage you to please please do one again. It is a really good idea, and I think it'll go much better next time because:

a.) Less people will sign up (and those who do will probably be ready to really play)
b.) Those that sign up will realize that they need to put in a little more effort to make it work.

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 15 Jul 2013, 16:00

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-15T10:18:01+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
My team was online nearly every day and we also couldn't play one match and it took 14 days to play the first KO round.
I would realy prefer fixed times in the next tourney. To say you can play when you want but if you haven't played until the last day, then the team who is online at this day wins. If only some players are online then they have to play without the other team members.

This tourney goes too long already. I think many players lost the interest already.

I agree, but set times cuts out a large set of the population, including me, by default.

Maybe a few seperate times to choose from? One of the things I loved about about was forming a team of different nationalities, one fixed time WOULD NOT suit all.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 15 Jul 2013, 10:18

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-15T09:39:34+02:00

My team was online nearly every day and we also couldn't play one match and it took 14 days to play the first KO round.
I would realy prefer fixed times in the next tourney. To say you can play when you want but if you haven't played until the last day, then the team who is online at this day wins. If only some players are online then they have to play without the other team members.

This tourney goes too long already. I think many players lost the interest already.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 15 Jul 2013, 09:39

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-15T09:13:03+02:00

Completely agianst the idea of a fixed time, especially considering the tourney is run for a number of weeks. Quite apart from the time zone differences, that almost always prevent me, and others from signing up from tournaments, people have different commitments. While it is fine to miss these for once in a while, expecting people to do so for such an extended period of time is completely unreasonable.

I still think the best way to go would be to have each time sign up with what times they can play. Eg 3-4pm UTC Saturday & 7-10pm Sunday.

This mitigates the communication issue an enables you to punish people who do not turn up more harshly, which is another thing I would suggest.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 15 Jul 2013, 09:13

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-15T04:24:48+02:00

Hello,

I am not yet sure what the best lesson from this is. However I will mention that having a fixed time on Saturday or Sunday may be the best way to go. In my opinion the issue with the tourney is letting people decide when to play. The phoenix cup was a good example you had to play at that time on Sunday. Will that exact time fit everyone ? No. Yet it is probably the lesser evil.

I will mention the idea that teams need to be a mandatory size. Perhaps something like 6 players to increase the odds of a game being played. If you then still fail to play you auto lose the round. 6 players on each team should be able to get a round played during the week. Auto lose the second round as well and you are banned from the next tournament or something. (Just needs to be a consequence) This would of course require a different system to rate the team.

Something to think about or spawn new ideas from.

Regards,

Chevalier

Statistics: Posted by Cheva — 15 Jul 2013, 04:24

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-15T00:11:27+02:00

Or, even better, if teams can post what times they can play WHEN THEY SIGN UP.

That was you avoid a clash of timezones in pools, and team know what to expect.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 15 Jul 2013, 00:11

Re: Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-15T00:07:41+02:00

The idea itself was great its jsut a realy big problem with gettign the matches up

Its like there is one possible date for each team per week.

I would have preferd to have way longer times for each round, something like a month for each round.

or maybe It would be better to fix times or something like that. if a team is not online at minumum 3 days a week it counts as a lose.

Statistics: Posted by Mr-Smith — 15 Jul 2013, 00:07

Feedback : Revolution Trophy

2013-07-16T17:25:49+02:00

Feedback? - yes please

i think i should start this at some point, many players of you should have something to post here
it is yet unsure whether there will be a second tourney like this, but i've often heard that idea was good in theory, maybe the real test just failed, it was time management, tourney management (by me), mappool or whatsoever. this is what this thread is for

please make sure your posts are not offensive
this thread is aiming to improve the rest of the tourney as well as maybe a future one

some ideas what you could use

the general idea
rating limits (for signups, for games)
time limits for matches
BO3, veto
mappool (more maps? less? some maps too hard in imbalanced matches?)
other rules (e.g. player exchange)
organisation/maintaining the running tourney
transperency of map selection, my own map/rating choices

if you don't want to complain in public, pm me, i'll post it here but won't tell names

feedback:
general
- good general idea
- tourney was too long already
- people mostly unexperienced
- be more strict (take it or leave)
rules
- too many rules
- change nothing during the running tourney
signups
- more information of players (when they got time, timezones, ...)
- more players per team
- request a teamcaptain who organzises games etc
groupstage
- post all maps/ratings right at the beginning
rounds
- longer time per round
- fixed time for games (2)
- no fixed time for games (2)
- maybe seperate times to choose from

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 14 Jul 2013, 23:59