Forged Alliance Forever

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-25T17:25:39+02:00

Gorton wrote:
On mercies : Yes. Increasing range, or giving them a set target like a tml, I see either working, perhaps both could be implemented. It makes them avoidable if you pay attention and scout. The projectiles might have to be more obvious on the map, both zoomed in and out.
This could also be used against other targets, like shields, pd, tml, tmd. May have to adjust some values as I see it could be a little op if you could snipe these things with mercy damage

Actually, the mercy would have to have a significant price/buildtime buff for it to be useful that way. It's far too expensive to be used for sniping cheap targets atm. Mostly because it's currently designed to deal 2,4k damage to ACUs/GCs in your base and be completely useless otherwise.
If we want it to be useful for killing tmd and the like, it can't cost much more than any of those. Currently buildtime on mercies is really long so the price in buildpower is really steep, for killing something that you can replace in seconds. T1 bombers are just a way better option in the current balance.

But there needs to be a way to stop your TMDs from dying to mercies that fire off inside your enemy's base. And shields isn't the right choice here.

EDIT: As to what comes to death explosions on beetles having different damage values, it's needlessly complicating the game. Players should just need to know that beetles explode and they do damage, not that beetles sometimes explode and do damage but if they manage to waddle around for 15 minutes they explode and kill everything.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 25 Dec 2016, 17:25

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-25T17:18:12+02:00

Exotic_Retard wrote:
Gorton wrote:It's almost like I suggested it to you/ithilis in the first place almost three years ago.
nice try, you may have had some similar idea in the past, but actually the changes here have nothing to do with you, sorry. It was tokyto. and blodir a little
maybe you confused it with suggesting it to us after we already put these in?

On beetles : If the aoe was increased and dmg decreased, they could have an on-death explosion again, perhaps lowering the final damage again for the death explosion.
guess what else is fixed in equilibrium? : D

Go ahead and check out all of ithilis' arguments with rk and brnk from 2013/14. It'll be in there somewhere.

On death explosion, great minds?

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 25 Dec 2016, 17:18

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-25T17:08:49+02:00

Gorton wrote:
It's almost like I suggested it to you/ithilis in the first place almost three years ago.

nice try, you may have had some similar idea in the past, but actually the changes here have nothing to do with you, sorry. It was tokyto. and blodir a little
maybe you confused it with suggesting it to us after we already put these in?

On beetles : If the aoe was increased and dmg decreased, they could have an on-death explosion again, perhaps lowering the final damage again for the death explosion.

guess what else is fixed in equilibrium? : D

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 25 Dec 2016, 17:08

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-25T16:54:10+02:00

Exotic_Retard wrote:
Gorton wrote:As for beetles, lower damage, increase aoe, use as anti-army
fixed in equilibrium : DDDD
http://equilibrium.x10host.com/changelog/#t2land

It's almost like I suggested it to you/ithilis in the first place almost three years ago.

JoonasTo wrote:
Basically air launched TMLs? Not a bad idea. Their tracking was already removed so we could just increase the range to achieve that. You would target something/groundfire somewhere, they split at range(let's say 50) and after that they won't be able to change course. Of course, currently nothing can shoot down a split mercy so only shields/building blocking will prevent buildings from getting destroyed but units could easily move out of the way.

As for beetles, like I mentioned in the earlier post, you can't use them vs units currently as they need to be able to "fire" their explosion now since their weapon doesn't fire on death, meaning you need to have them first line up to the enemy units, then walk at the unit and decide they actually want to fire. Maybe we could increase their range(so as they will explode when the AoE reaches the target) to compensate for this stupidity?

On mercies : Yes. Increasing range, or giving them a set target like a tml, I see either working, perhaps both could be implemented. It makes them avoidable if you pay attention and scout. The projectiles might have to be more obvious on the map, both zoomed in and out.
This could also be used against other targets, like shields, pd, tml, tmd. May have to adjust some values as I see it could be a little op if you could snipe these things with mercy damage

On beetles : If the aoe was increased and dmg decreased, they could have an on-death explosion again, perhaps lowering the final damage again for the death explosion.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 25 Dec 2016, 16:54

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-25T16:52:45+02:00

Basically air launched TMLs? Not a bad idea. Their tracking was already removed so we could just increase the range to achieve that. You would target something/groundfire somewhere, they split at range(let's say 50) and after that they won't be able to change course. Of course, currently nothing can shoot down a split mercy so only shields/building blocking will prevent buildings from getting destroyed but units could easily move out of the way.

As for beetles, like I mentioned in the earlier post, you can't use them vs units currently as they need to be able to "fire" their explosion now since their weapon doesn't fire on death, meaning you need to have them first line up to the enemy units, then walk at the unit and decide they actually want to fire. Maybe we could increase their range(so as they will explode when the AoE reaches the target) to compensate for this stupidity?

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 25 Dec 2016, 16:52

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-25T16:50:37+02:00

Gorton wrote:
As for beetles, lower damage, increase aoe, use as anti-army

fixed in equilibrium : DDDD
http://equilibrium.x10host.com/changelog/#t2land

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 25 Dec 2016, 16:50

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-25T16:36:17+02:00

I quite like the idea of having a launch button for mercies that essentially turns them into a fast tml-like shot once you target them

As for beetles, lower damage, increase aoe, use as anti-army

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 25 Dec 2016, 16:36

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-25T16:26:59+02:00

We could go to buffing both mercies and beetles to make them actually useful. As they are now they are useless 99% of the games. Might as well not have them in the game as they are so pointless.

Beetles not exploding on death removed all usefulness they had. Maybe we could try fixing their pathfinding and targeting protocols? As they are, they won't target anything before all the beetles with an attack command have lined up nicely around the target and by that time even T1 engineers will have killed them so you can't use them to kill MEX/PGEN anymore. Not to mention commanders, that got the auto-oc to keep them safe now.

The only useful thing for mercies is sniping players under T2 mobile shields but even then they're countered by a single T1 mobile aa. We could make them faster and stronger again, or we need to make them a lot cheaper with more fuel, so they would be viable T2 mex/pgen killing tools. I wouldn't be against actually useful T2 air tool for Aeon to deny enemy economy.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 25 Dec 2016, 16:26

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-23T17:23:19+02:00

Mercy is a great way to bfto wonder noobs people who think not making their own t1 air in a teamgame is justifiable vs someone who does (me)

Statistics: Posted by biass — 23 Dec 2016, 17:23

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-23T17:18:48+02:00

As with everything if you scout it, you should be fine

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 23 Dec 2016, 17:18

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-23T16:56:34+02:00

They're still a unit that assists glorious shitty airspot domination, so they should die.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 23 Dec 2016, 16:56

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-23T15:14:57+02:00

If only mercies didn't get countered by 1 unit of the following:

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 23 Dec 2016, 15:14

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-23T14:51:48+02:00

do you know what is funny? mercy snipe is much easier then beetle snipe, but beetle snipe got nerf

if you wanna aggressive com play nerf mercy, they are the biggest reason players are scared to use com, because mercy kill you in a second ,with gunships you have chance to survive

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 23 Dec 2016, 14:51

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2016-12-23T13:17:34+02:00

Sneaky bump.

Statistics: Posted by Tokyto — 23 Dec 2016, 13:17

Re: An Illustrated Guide to Mercies

2011-12-04T18:52:35+02:00

I think you lost track (intentionally ? ) of the cost of the power to build the mercies, the t2 airfac, the cost of the mercies themselves.

It was a gamble before, it should remain the same. If you SCOUT ur AEON opponent to have t2 air, just dont take more risks than necessary. Mercy snipes fail when commander is in a zone with radar coverage and just a few ints close ready to intercep a groupe of SLOW air units coming together to you (hint ).

Lets make the difference of the costs between the mercies and its chain of production and the t1 radar and ints

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 04 Dec 2011, 18:52