Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-12-08T12:42:06+02:00

hi, inspired by TA´s idea, I also want to introduce another concept, which is easy to understand, improves the game depth and is inspirated by the electric field. Also it doesnt take to much micro and doesnt need any changes to the recent UI. I would love to see this as a mod or get implemented in ranked.

Statistics: Posted by noovd — 08 Dec 2013, 12:42

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-15T16:11:40+02:00

I did not get all of that but how about this, PC+ sends energy to PC-, the farther away PC- is the more charge it can contain(due to more time it needs to travel) which means if you build PC+ and PC- like half the map away they can store enormous amount of power but if your enemy manages to capture one of them he can essentially drain away all your power from you, which makes that strategy great but very risky if you cant protect your assets, is that what you were trying to say?

Statistics: Posted by samoja — 15 May 2013, 16:11

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-14T15:56:06+02:00

betelgeuze wrote:
Well, ok, you can argue, that you live in a purely two dimensional world. Then 1/r for electric field would be ok and potential would go like log r.

I find this a very funny idea, but honestly - way too complicated. You could make a complete stand alone game from this.

There is no change in complexity, it is just changing the exponents. I think taking the potential all the way to log(r) would be too much, r^(-3/2) E field seems the best fit to me, but I think all this would be best determined when the mod is finished.

Statistics: Posted by SeraphimLeftNut — 14 May 2013, 15:56

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-14T13:58:51+02:00

Well, ok, you can argue, that you live in a purely two dimensional world. Then 1/r for electric field would be ok and potential would go like log r.

I find this a very funny idea, but honestly - way too complicated. You could make a complete stand alone game from this.

Statistics: Posted by betelgeuze — 14 May 2013, 13:58

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-14T00:56:39+02:00

rootbeer23 wrote:
betelgeuze wrote:And moreover, if you want to model it after real electric fields you have to take 1/r to have the smallest justification for that. Otherwise is just physical inspired esoterics.

does the inverse square law not apply to electrostatics?

The electric field propagates as inverse square, but the potential propagates as just inverse. I was suggesting to let the potential propagate as inverse square root.

Statistics: Posted by SeraphimLeftNut — 14 May 2013, 00:56

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-13T21:58:17+02:00

betelgeuze wrote:
And moreover, if you want to model it after real electric fields you have to take 1/r to have the smallest justification for that. Otherwise is just physical inspired esoterics.

does the inverse square law not apply to electrostatics?

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 13 May 2013, 21:58

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-13T21:03:36+02:00

betelgeuze wrote:
I think you need to take into account, that the electromagnetic waves need time to propagate from the charges. You should involve the retarded potentials, which would add a nice and realistic delay into the energy budget. That way you have to plan more in advance.
And moreover, if you want to model it after real electric fields you have to take 1/r to have the smallest justification for that. Otherwise is just physical inspired esoterics.

This is absolutely physically inspired esoterics that follow supcom rules.
At first I had 1/r but that really drops off too fast to make the interplay between far charges interesting. Having it go as 1/r also makes farming these for energy much easier.
There are no electromagnetic waves here, although if this is ever made I would like to do some generatlizations in that direction, but the main thing is to keep the gameplay simple and fun and I think allowing players to oscillate their charges or to do charge transfers might be taking it too far.
I think putting relativity into this game would blow too many minds, so I don't think we need retarded potentials, afterall we get instant energy propagation throughout a player's base and army. Speed of light is infinity in supcom fa and it is a closed set, I know it is crazy, but we are talking about Cybran technology here.

Statistics: Posted by SeraphimLeftNut — 13 May 2013, 21:03

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-13T11:39:07+02:00

I think you need to take into account, that the electromagnetic waves need time to propagate from the charges. You should involve the retarded potentials, which would add a nice and realistic delay into the energy budget. That way you have to plan more in advance.
And moreover, if you want to model it after real electric fields you have to take 1/r to have the smallest justification for that. Otherwise is just physical inspired esoterics.

Statistics: Posted by betelgeuze — 13 May 2013, 11:39

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-13T03:08:42+02:00

NotAsian wrote:
I guess a Small program to let people play around with it so they can visualise it would really help. It seems odd that charge is not directly correlated with energy. Breaks my physics brain but looks like its just a really big micro intensive energy storage idea atm until someone comes up with a use for the charge field other than destroying your own base...
Ill see if I can write a quick program.

Today duck_42 told me a bit about modding. I might be able to make this mod, or at least part of it.

Energy is not stored in charges, but in the interaction between charges.

Statistics: Posted by SeraphimLeftNut — 13 May 2013, 03:08

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-13T01:44:01+02:00

I guess a Small program to let people play around with it so they can visualise it would really help. It seems odd that charge is not directly correlated with energy. Breaks my physics brain but looks like its just a really big micro intensive energy storage idea atm until someone comes up with a use for the charge field other than destroying your own base...
Ill see if I can write a quick program.

Statistics: Posted by NotAsian — 13 May 2013, 01:44

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-13T01:35:33+02:00

check out the image attached to the op, it has some specific values about total energy generated and energy generation rate as a function of time, for different charge arrangements

Statistics: Posted by SeraphimLeftNut — 13 May 2013, 01:35

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-13T01:05:26+02:00

How would you measure this? Would you add another line under mass/energy?

This is an interesting idea. I can't say I understand it fully (there seems to be some missing info, just some details), but it sounds like something that would be useful/neat to have ingame.

EDIT: Also, how much energy are we talking about with a +10 point charge? How much energy can we get back from it?

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 13 May 2013, 01:05

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-12T21:01:09+02:00

Golol wrote:
well i think a cool feature that could be added to this idea would be overloading.
you can somehow overload a point chareg with a lot of energy and then that point charge will get destroyed and deal damage to other point charges with the same charge depending on the distance obviously and if you pay more energy you can even destroy other point charges

I think something like that would be interesting, an incentive not to over use the system. If the collateral damage from a charge explosion scales with charge stored in the unit, then there is a much higher change for a chain reaction if you have stored a lot of charge.

Statistics: Posted by SeraphimLeftNut — 12 May 2013, 21:01

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-12T20:46:25+02:00

well i think a cool feature that could be added to this idea would be overloading.
you can somehow overload a point chareg with a lot of energy and then that point charge will get destroyed and deal damage to other point charges with the same charge depending on the distance obviously and if you pay more energy you can even destroy other point charges

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 12 May 2013, 20:46

Re: Making the economy more Awesome, adopting the electric f

2013-05-12T20:32:48+02:00

sherratt285 wrote:
Due to the scalibility of detonation a UI overlay option showing the damage radius of a network of charge structures would be important so you dont unwittingly create a poweder keg inside your own base

Definitely something to keep in mind, this is a cost to using this, to keep regular pgens the standard for making power.

Statistics: Posted by SeraphimLeftNut — 12 May 2013, 20:32