Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-29T11:40:26+02:00

Is there an updated unit list?

Statistics: Posted by Tango_X — 29 Apr 2013, 11:40

Re: Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-29T06:46:25+02:00

sry that i didnt see tml.
but if the fatboy is properly microed it is still pretty hard to hit.
and it is the perfect weapon for killing bases and armies

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 29 Apr 2013, 06:46

Re: Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-29T02:25:08+02:00

where is the big reclaim on theta5? i havent found it yet.
also, listing winter duel together together with desert arena is questionable.
make a third category: medium reclaim and you will have 3 equal groups.
i would call clover very much medium, but at the same time its a map where grabbing mass extractors is important.
the maps where you can do without mexes is short enough. well at least to me that is a more sensible distinguiser if you make only 2 groups.

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 29 Apr 2013, 02:25

Re: Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-28T22:12:59+02:00

Golol wrote:
+aeon: good tmd (one of the best in my tests)
-aeon: arty only useful against buildings
-aeon: harbinger no chance against brick/percy in later game
and in UEF it's only "worst land experimental on small maps"
you might add these if you find them reasonable

Aeon TMD was already up there, Percival being bad-ass vs T3/T4 is noted, harbinger isn't exceptionally bad vs the brick, is it? I'm of the opinion to fatboy is bad on all maps, because it's range is less than TML, meaning TML can kill it whenever it gets close to a base.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 28 Apr 2013, 22:12

Re: Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-28T21:42:53+02:00

+aeon: good tmd (one of the best in my tests)
-aeon: arty only useful against buildings
-aeon: harbinger no chance against brick/percy in later game
and in UEF it's only "worst land experimental on small maps"
you might add these if you find them reasonable

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 28 Apr 2013, 21:42

Re: Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-28T18:28:57+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
due your defenition of much reclaim only open waters an emeral crater are no high reclaim maps, cause on theta you rush for reclaim with commander on open palms your get the stones and on canis the stons in the river with your 2nd/3rd engy

I would argue that those aren't necessary and failing to perform those actions isn't auto-loss, but I'll agree that this is somewhat of a grey area because the rocks most certainly ARE there.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 28 Apr 2013, 18:28

Re: Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-28T18:27:17+02:00

due your defenition of much reclaim only open waters an emeral crater are no high reclaim maps, cause on theta you rush for reclaim with commander on open palms your get the stones and on canis the stons in the river with your 2nd/3rd engy

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 28 Apr 2013, 18:27

Re: Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-28T18:16:03+02:00

If found your assessment to be very helpful and informative. Thank you for doing this Funk Off.

Statistics: Posted by Swkoll — 28 Apr 2013, 18:16

Status of ranked balance, April 2013 map and faction

2013-04-28T18:03:27+02:00

This is the present state of balance, map and faction, in ranked:

Maps are varied, with the exception that most have a large amount of reclaim. (I'm defining "large amount" as your first, second, or third engineer must reclaim or you're likely to die simply due to your enemy having more resources than you, or the total is over 5,000 mass in a small area.) Going down the list, these maps have a large amount of reclaim:
-Artic Refuge, Blasted Rock, Desert Arena, Fields of Thunder, Four leaf clover, Loki, Saltrock, Seraphim Claciers, Sytris Major, Theta Passage 5, Twin Rivers, Vale of Isis, White Fire, Winter Duel
"Normal" amount of relcaim:
-Canis River, Emerald crater, Finns Revenge, Open Palms, Open Water, Theta Passage, Williamson's Bridge
I think we should switch out the most reclaim-heavy maps (Desert Area is the worst, followed by Sytris) with less reclaim-intensive maps just to even out the number of reclaim and non-reclaim maps.

Inter-faction balance is controversial, but I believe Cybran is the clear front runner, in terms of faction strength, with UEF is in second place, followed by Aeon and Seraphim (which are about on par with each other.)
-UEF is in a good place. They are well-rounded, no huge weaknesses, significant faction-exclusive bonuses including the below:
--TML backback, and recently buffed Billy enhancement, Sparky (not game-changing, but decent), jamming technologies, and (arguably) the best over-all T2 tank, the pillar, highest DPS T2 gunship (best vs structures), very good T3/T4 navy, best T3 bot (against T3/T4)
--UEF disadvantages are minor, but notable: Most expensive T1 tank (slightly), weakest T1/T2 bombers (but not by much), worst T2 navy (but not by much), worst land XP (easiest to kill by TML)
--UED overall: Good.

-Cybran, is very strong, and likely OP. Well-rounded, no huge weaknesses, with many unique strengths, including:
--Best stealth generator (double range), cheapest T2 shield (160 mass vs 800 for seraphim), mobile stealth technologies, best T2 direct fire support bot, fastest T2 tank (wagner), only underwater T2 tank (wagner), best T2 gunship vs T1 hordes (due to AoE and spread on the weapon), only T1 gunship, only ACU with torp upgrade, bestf best T2 navy (mostly due to mermaid and good frigate/destroyer AA), best ACU regen (18 vs 10 for others), cheapest/fastest T1 tank, T1 tank can assist build, best overall land experimental (Megalith), best TML/MML (due to splitting), best T2 PD (against T1), best T1 bomber (against structures)
--Cybran disadvantages: Slightly less ACU hp (9% less than aeon ACU, but 80% more regen), Corsair weaker in ACU snipes (but better against hordes of tanks), weakest overall T3 navy
--Cybran overall: Very, very good (OP)

- Aeon is either very good or very bad depending on the map, due to auroras. Auroras scale very, very well at battles above 30 vs 30, utterly dominating other factions at T1 spam in numbers higher than 50 vs 50, although they are appreciable worse than other T1 tanks in numbers below 20 vs 20.
-- Aeon advantages include: Adaptable ACU gun (can get only range, or only rof gun upgrade, for less), extraordinarily powerful T1 tank spam (at large scale), best T2 air, best TMD, best RAS, best T3 bot (against t1/T2), T3 arty that can move and shoot (thus, can dodge TMLs), T3 gunship that resists fighters
-- Aeon disadvantages include: Worst T1 tank (at small scale), weakest T2 land (mostly due to weak obdiseon, blaze, and MML), worst T2 PD (against T1)
-- Overall: Bad on small maps, very, very good (OP) on large land-spam maps.

- Seraphim is balanced very similarly with UEF, with most of their weaknesses stemming from having far fewer units to chose from than other factions, and not necessarily from the units they do have from being weaker (which they aren't).
-- Seraphim advantages: Invisible T1 scout, best T1 arty, best T2 tank (the bot functions as a tank), very good T2 navy (due to the destroyer), best T3 navy (due to the T3 sub), ACU TML backback, best T1 bomber (against units)
-- Seraphim disadvantages: No GG (due to no light bot), worst T2 tank (against overcharge), worst T2 amphibious tank, no T2 naval support unit, No T2 land support unit, overall worst T3 tank (against other T3/XPs), no T3 sonar, no T3 gunship
--Overall: Good, when not facing OC (when facing OC, bad)

Write your opinion on my above assessments below. I'm not going to propose balance changes, let's just agree on the status first.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 28 Apr 2013, 18:03