Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T14:34:32+02:00

Hmmm maybe you are right. I've just realized that a file was altered by the change and I did not reverted it as it wasn't existing before.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 14 Apr 2013, 14:34

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T14:29:19+02:00

Regen is a constant that is taken into account when I do the calculations, and please do bear in mind that if you say that I did the cybran pd wrong in the old replay then you're telling me that the dps values for the sera aeon and uef pds were wrong as well (dps of 165, 150 and 123 respectively). Alternatively you're telling me I calculated the current patch value for cybran pd of 130 wrong, in which case I will happily go do another test and provide that replay.

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 14 Apr 2013, 14:29

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T14:18:25+02:00

You are showing me a replay with the current balance, then you are telling me if was different before.
It was not, I've tested it today.

Your test are using units that have regen, it's not really a good way to do it. I did it on building that does not have regen (SCU gateway).

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 14 Apr 2013, 14:18

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T14:12:45+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
I've tested it before and after the fix, nothing changed DPS wise.

Stop making me losing my time, thanks.

Based on the assumption that this is the first change since 3603, the replay evidence I have just posted clearly show different dps values.

I'm not even asking you to waste your time, you can leave the cybran pd at whatever value you want.

The replay numbers are here again so that anyone can check them themselves:
Replay prior to current patch, ~111 dps cybran pd = replay #244373
Replay on current patch, ~130 dps cybran pd = replay #817975

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 14 Apr 2013, 14:12

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T14:04:00+02:00

I've tested it before and after the fix, nothing changed DPS wise.
And the last DPS buff of the cerberus was in 3604.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 14 Apr 2013, 14:04

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T13:29:56+02:00

The cyb t2 pd hasn't been changed since 3603 right? Then it definately has had a dps buff because I tested it previously because the db values for it in the nomads and normal dbs were different.

Previously I calculated a dps of 111.4 for it, now I calculate 130.1

This is over the time it takes to do around 600000 damage, the uncertainty is around +-1 dps, so it has in actual fact recieved a major buff. I really don't care whether or not thats a good or bad thing, I'm just here to spread some factual information.

Heres the link to the testing done some months ago: fafreplay://244373 (You need Brutes replay manager to use this link I think)
See my previous post for the testing done this week.

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 14 Apr 2013, 13:29

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T11:11:48+02:00

I did two tests.

First test : Triad/Cerberus VS a Gateway.
Before the change : When the triad killed the gateway, the remaining HP on the cerberus one was 913 HP.
After the change : When the triad killed the gateway, the remaining HP on the cerberus one was 911 HP.

Second test : Cerberus VS a Seraphim T2 Hover Tank.
Before the change : Took 11 seconds to kill it.
After the change : Took 12 seconds to kill it.

(Should indeed take 10 seconds, but it depend if you count the time when it enter the turret radius or the time the first shot hit, and if by destroying you when the last shot hit or the death animation).

As I'm not a human metronome and the game doesn't display milliseconds, with a small error margin, you can say it's exactly the same before and after.

I don't really know why there was that 3 hours "discussion" yesterday in chat, but thanks for making losing my time once again.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 14 Apr 2013, 11:11

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T10:32:26+02:00

3603 patch changelog :
Cybran T2 Point Defense dps increased damage to 13. It has been like that since 3603, and the beginning of FAF.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 14 Apr 2013, 10:32

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T10:15:31+02:00

pip wrote:
I calculate the DPS like that : 13 damages*3 shots *3 rate of fire = 117.

But it doesn't matter, if you calculate 130 DPS, that's also what it was before the change, the DPS was not touched in any way.

As you said it doesn't matter. You (And the db) calculate the value as it should be calculated (RoF=3 means one shot every 1/3rd of a second), but the rounding changes that: As a result, the actual RoF is 3.3333...

The actual DPS is 130, the Seraphim T2 hover tank has 1300 HP and takes exactly 10 seconds to be killed. It would be 11.1 so I also checked with the T3 siege tank and that takes 51 seconds (expected 57 if it were 117 dps.)

I tried comparing with the 3599 version, but I got 77 dps there (had the dps of the PD been increased earlier?), so we'll have to wait for Pilot to check what the dps was in the previous T2 PD. I bet it's also 130 and that we don't have to lower it here.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 14 Apr 2013, 10:15

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T08:47:56+02:00

DilliDalli wrote:
The calculation for cybran t2 pd is done as (13x3)/0.3 by the engine, so is 130 dps. The 0.3 comes from 1 divided by the RoF (3) to give the firing frequency, and rounded to one decimal place. (This agrees with the calculation that takes place in the db code, the online db just isn't updated and still shows the pd as a beam weapon)

If you want to disagree with the above, fine, but please then explain the experimental evidence shown by the time taken to kill a gc with one t2 cyb pd. Take into account the regen (10hp/s)and you get a figure of exactly 130 dps. Replay attached.

I calculate the DPS like that : 13 damages*3 shots *3 rate of fire = 117.

But it doesn't matter, if you calculate 130 DPS, that's also what it was before the change, the DPS was not touched in any way.

It rather shows that a bugged unit is infinitely inferior to a non bugged unit. Prior to the bug, DPS was sometimes 117 (or 130 if you prefer), sometimes 0. Now that the unit DPS is true and doesn't miss moving targets as it used to do, it can be adjusted.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 14 Apr 2013, 08:47

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-14T02:19:59+02:00

The calculation for cybran t2 pd is done as (13x3)/0.3 by the engine, so is 130 dps. The 0.3 comes from 1 divided by the RoF (3) to give the firing frequency, and rounded to one decimal place. (This agrees with the calculation that takes place in the db code, the online db just isn't updated and still shows the pd as a beam weapon)

If you want to disagree with the above, fine, but please then explain the experimental evidence shown by the time taken to kill a gc with one t2 cyb pd. Take into account the regen (10hp/s)and you get a figure of exactly 130 dps. Replay attached.

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 14 Apr 2013, 02:19

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-13T21:33:39+02:00

I will check if there is indeed a DPS difference, no need to be all excited and raging before it's proven true.
(and if it is true, it will obviously be reverted to the same DPS as before).

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 13 Apr 2013, 21:33

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-13T18:50:04+02:00

I would say that IF Jeeves is right then the cybran pd is too powerful for its costs and would need to be changed ( as Jim says its a cybran weakness). In response to mushroom- Cybran have the cheapest PD and the cheapest shields making the potential for an early pd creep possible. They also have the best mml which when combined with stealth can easily hold or break a fire-base or PD creep. Therefore, they don't need a buffed turret to be able to 'HOLD' in games and isn't the whole point of cybran to be the aggressor and to constantly raid rather than making firebases

Statistics: Posted by Taffy — 13 Apr 2013, 18:50

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-13T18:47:59+02:00

I've checked the code, the stats are absolutely identical. RoF is the same and the damage of each projectile (or, as it was before, beam) is the same. There should be (and is not, according to the change) NO change WHATSOEVER in it's DPS. Code doesn't lie.

Statistics: Posted by RK4000 — 13 Apr 2013, 18:47

Re: Cybran T2 pd Post Fix

2013-04-13T18:24:40+02:00

The Sera PD does retarget after a unit dies, though because its damage is so focused it misses out on 1-2 ticks of damage when it switches targets. It's not much though, it doesn't overkill NEARLY as much as the Triad or the Oblivion, making it arguably the best T2 PD. The Cerberus is fine as it is, IMHO. Because of the underlying factional symmetry of FA, the Cybran do need to be able to hold ground, they can't ONLY rely on subversion and stealth and expect to win. It is comparable to a weaker Sera T2 PD, and nobody ever complains about the Sera T2 PD.

Statistics: Posted by MushrooMars — 13 Apr 2013, 18:24