Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-11T12:10:00+02:00

That's your problem.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 11 Apr 2013, 12:10

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-11T11:51:13+02:00

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
FunkOff wrote:I'd rather he made no change at all that these sloppy changes that break some things to "fix" others.

I'd rather you join in on the fixing than just complain about it. Gameplay >>> visuals

And what if you don't even think the gameplay is getting improved?

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 11 Apr 2013, 11:51

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-11T08:32:04+02:00

If something, charging after firing is less dumb to me that charging before, because that's what you will do for effectiveness.

Also, the effect doesn't look weird either, and the unit works immensely better.
It may sounds weird to you, but only because you are used to the old one. The new one is not worst or better, but different.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 11 Apr 2013, 08:32

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-11T08:32:07+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
That said, I didn't start this topic to discuss balance changes or those contained in the patch. Rather, evidently the people/person doing faf patch coding now doesn't care about properly testing changes and making sure they stay true to the original design intent and aesthetic. Completely removing lasers is a a lazy way of fixing the problems of inaccurate laser weapons because it side-steps the problem rather than solving it. As a result, something cool (lasers) are unnecessarily cut.

The same is true of the oblivious charge times: Simply removing the charge time breaks the aesthetic because now, as mentioned before, the charge time occurs after the weapon fires, making it look and sound ridiculous. Clearly, pip didn't consider the ramifications of his changes before he made them, and it indicates to me that he's being really lazy about it.

I'd rather he made no change at all that these sloppy changes that break some things to "fix" others.

You are free to give a hand or rather some lines of codes instead of bitching. I'm not lazy, I just have nearly no scripting knowledge, I can just tweak bp. I have to wait for someone to help me with a code before testing it, and obviously that someone won't be you, because instead of helping and providing a more elegant solution (because you can code as far as I know), it's easier to call me lazy. I wonder though who is the laziest person between us. And if you reply that you have no time for this, don't waste mine because it's not my job and you're not my boss.

I'm aware of issues, I just think it's more efficient to test a concept then improve it if it works, rather than doing nothing at all. Hopefully, I'll get help this week end to see if it's possible to make the charging fx load up before the weapon is ready to fire, which makes much more sense than adding a charge delay after it is supposed to fire. I hope it'll work.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 11 Apr 2013, 08:31

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-11T08:27:45+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
I'd rather he made no change at all that these sloppy changes that break some things to "fix" others.

I'd rather you join in on the fixing than just complain about it. Gameplay >>> visuals

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 11 Apr 2013, 08:27

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-11T01:01:08+02:00

uberge3k wrote:
I tried for a week to get people to test with me. Not even a mod, just a normal, real game, trying certain combinations of units, to gather empirical evidence and ensure that my assumptions about how air can be used were correct before attempting to tweak it.

By the end of the week, I had half of one 2v2. It looked promising until someone had to leave midgame.

Ahaha, I remember a while back you told me something to the effect of "make a mod with your balance changes, if it's good, people will play it".

The fact of the matter is, balance mods have been and always will be unpopular for a hundred different reasons.

That said, I didn't start this topic to discuss balance changes or those contained in the patch. Rather, evidently the people/person doing faf patch coding now doesn't care about properly testing changes and making sure they stay true to the original design intent and aesthetic. Completely removing lasers is a a lazy way of fixing the problems of inaccurate laser weapons because it side-steps the problem rather than solving it. As a result, something cool (lasers) are unnecessarily cut.

The same is true of the oblivious charge times: Simply removing the charge time breaks the aesthetic because now, as mentioned before, the charge time occurs after the weapon fires, making it look and sound ridiculous. Clearly, pip didn't consider the ramifications of his changes before he made them, and it indicates to me that he's being really lazy about it.

I'd rather he made no change at all that these sloppy changes that break some things to "fix" others.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 11 Apr 2013, 01:01

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-10T21:52:09+02:00

The reduction of energy storage in the ACU and removal of energy storage in factories was done to do two things.

1. See an energy storage in a game at some point.
2. Reduce the effectiveness of the ACU a bit so that it cannot attack on its own and start a rampage against the enemy units and base.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 10 Apr 2013, 21:52

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-10T21:36:58+02:00

But that's why everyone beats me up in the first 5 minutes. (and it also makes initial PG less important.)

Statistics: Posted by Raghar — 10 Apr 2013, 21:36

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-10T21:15:28+02:00

lol i never noticed that!

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 10 Apr 2013, 21:15

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-10T21:11:20+02:00

That dates back to the pre-FAF days of 3603. It was given 20 instead of 10 to compensate for the fact that we now only start with 4000 power.

Statistics: Posted by CocoaMoko — 10 Apr 2013, 21:11

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-10T20:41:38+02:00

BTW when we are in the throwing stones mode. Who's idea was to increase power generation of ACU to 20.

Statistics: Posted by Raghar — 10 Apr 2013, 20:41

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-10T20:13:31+02:00

What do you expect me to say? I ignore the rest of your post because I don't necessarily disagree with everything you say just because we're on opposing sides of the argument.

And my use of the straw man title was extremely valid in this case, and I linked to that article a few pages back.
This ties into why I didn't spend time refuting the rest of your post: because it's true. It is hard to be positive when we get threads accusing people of "lazy coding" and such.
That point is entirely unrelated to the thesis of my argument, however. So you are correct about what what you said, and you have made your case very well, but it doesn't really relate to the general point I'm conveying.

Statistics: Posted by CocoaMoko — 10 Apr 2013, 20:13

Re: Who's doing this lazy testing ?

2013-04-10T19:38:15+02:00

Skilzat99X wrote:
uberge3k wrote:Exhibit C: The general tone of nearly every post about balance in the forums is approximately "FA is ruined because of these changes, and you should trust me and do whatever I say because I know better than everyone else and don't need any proof of it."

Hello Mr. Straw Man, how are you today! How is implying things that people did not say or mean going for you? Good? Excellent! I heard the business of putting words and intentions into the mouths and minds of others is quite the profitable business! We have to get a spot of tea soon!

Definition of a straw man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Wikipedia wrote:
To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Now, here is the remainder of my post, which you neglected to include or address in your response:

uberge3k wrote:
Exhibit C: The general tone of nearly every post about balance in the forums is approximately "FA is ruined because of these changes, and you should trust me and do whatever I say because I know better than everyone else and don't need any proof of it."

Even if the generalization is unfair, it's simply difficult to retain a positive attitude and assume the best about every post when the 100 before it were like this.

Honestly, it's the community's own fault.

You seem to be doing precisely what you accuse others of.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 10 Apr 2013, 19:38

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-10T15:49:33+02:00

I still think the balance testing period should be integrated into FAF for a couple weeks instead of in a mod no-one plays.

Statistics: Posted by ZaphodX — 10 Apr 2013, 15:49

Re: Who's doing this lazy coding?

2013-04-10T15:36:35+02:00

I agree with Discoverer, people need to remember what state FA was left in, that Pilot didn't have to make FAF, and that FA is objectively much better now than it's ever been.

Statistics: Posted by Eukanuba — 10 Apr 2013, 15:36