Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-05T17:41:19+02:00

And why would you even think he's right about the answers ?

I didn't go through all the questions to be honnest, but for all the ones i read, the answer was "it depends" ... or "there's no FIXED STATIC rule"

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 05 Apr 2013, 17:41

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-05T11:47:17+02:00

-_V_- wrote:
ZaphodX wrote:When do we get to see the results of the survey?

There is no real answer to any of the question. Accept that.

No, even if the questions seem ambiguous I'm pretty sure Zep has an answer for each question that is the most efficient in each isolated circumstance.

Statistics: Posted by ZaphodX — 05 Apr 2013, 11:47

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-05T11:01:44+02:00

ZaphodX wrote:
When do we get to see the results of the survey?

There is no real answer to any of the question. Accept that.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 05 Apr 2013, 11:01

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T20:58:15+02:00

This entire conversation is a symptom of the fact that there are no simple answers in Supcom FA (that is why it is so great).
10 engies vs 20 engies. One, two or n mexes at a time, etc. Is all very dependent on how much mass you have available, how much power you have available, what fraction of your economy and for how long you want to divert into mass extractors, how many wrecks are in reach of your engies in 30 seconds, and a whole lot more.

The general rules are: Mass in storage depreciates in value. Do not stall on mass or power.

The two limiting scenarios are: Lots of mass available (reclaim or stored) and zero mass available.

In the case where there is a large excess of mass and stalling is not an issue, using maximum number of engies going T1 to T2 to T3 mass storage, one extractor at a time.(storage after mex because to build storage engies have to move out o the way, t2 to t3 and storage can be interchanged under the high build capacity scenario)

In the case where mass is limited: get ~10 mexes from t1 to t2 using as little engies as possible(spread them out over mexes and do not overproduce them), but enough to not be collecting excess mass, cap them with mass storage in a sequence that will depend on engie positioning(if you have 4+ engies available to cap a t2 mex with mass storage, it is more favorable to do that, than to upgrade an unassisted T1 mex to T2). Then begin taking mexes to T3.

Actual situations can be somewhere between these two limiting cases or be quite different.

Statistics: Posted by SeraphimLeftNut — 04 Apr 2013, 20:58

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T16:10:58+02:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPa57qKYQo#t=5m28s

Statistics: Posted by Rocksteady — 04 Apr 2013, 16:10

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T16:03:26+02:00

When do we get to see the results of the survey?

Statistics: Posted by ZaphodX — 04 Apr 2013, 16:03

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T16:03:11+02:00

DilliDalli wrote:
What if the travel time is 0 because two mexes are next to each other, or if you only have one mex to upgrade to t2?

Then it's better to put as much engy you have next to your mex.

DilliDalli wrote:
This is a requirement to produce an answer except its not provided in the question. This information is entirely circumstantial, hence why it is a bad question as it doesn't provide enough information to complete it.

There is not a single real correct answer to it.
Most tutorials state a value of 10 engy, and it's a good value most of the time. It's a survey to check the knowledge of "noobs", not for testing 2000 rated players rhetorical powers.

DilliDalli wrote:
Also what happens when you start with 900 mass in the bank? Seems thats been missed off our graph, or perhaps if you start off with 0 mass and a fixed income?

If you don't have enough to upgrade the mex, you will obviously run in negative mass, making the upgrade slower, and so the upgrade won't be "optimal", so outside the scope of the question.

If

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 04 Apr 2013, 16:03

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T16:02:26+02:00

Arkansas wrote:
Purple line has 3 distinct gradients not 2.

1800-1714= 86
1042-958 = 84

Indeed sorry.

20130404035904.png

It's more logical like this.

(-86 and -82, because the first upgraded mex give you +4).

So actually I stand corrected, 1 second of travel it's more effective to do it sequentially. 2, it's more effective to do it in parallel.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 04 Apr 2013, 16:02

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T15:59:36+02:00

What if the travel time is 0 because two mexes are next to each other, or if you only have one mex to upgrade to t2? This is a requirement to produce an answer except its not provided in the question. This information is entirely circumstantial, hence why it is a bad question as it doesn't provide enough information to complete it.

Also what happens when you start with 900 mass in the bank? Seems thats been missed off our graph, or perhaps if you start off with 0 mass and a fixed income?

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 04 Apr 2013, 15:59

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T16:00:42+02:00

UES_Sheppard:
it can: a) i have not enough mass and can use the mass that goes into the storrage in the time i travel anyway (likely) or i just have enough engys to stand at both mexes (unlikely but happens)

Zockyzock:
it could also be that you have 10 engystations next to mex and a paragon
15:54

and if you start thinking about what happens if you mass stall half way... uuuhh (ofc this is not the scope of the test, but it is an additional note to the word "optimal")

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 04 Apr 2013, 15:58

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T15:53:25+02:00

Purple line has 3 distinct gradients not 2.

1800-1714= 86
1042-958 = 84

Statistics: Posted by Arkansas — 04 Apr 2013, 15:53

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T15:48:59+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
Ze_PilOt wrote:You are wrong, and I'm not taking travel time in account

möööp?

What don't you understand ?

The travel time doesn't matter, but it has to exists. I'm not taking any travel time in account, but I don't take the existence of teleporting engineer either like you did

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 04 Apr 2013, 15:48

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T15:46:10+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
You are wrong, and I'm not taking travel time in account

möööp?

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 04 Apr 2013, 15:46

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T15:41:55+02:00

I feel like explaining basic things to children here.

Ok.

Let's start with a 1800 mass in stock.

20130404033658.png

Orange is 8 engy on 2 simultaneous mexes.
Purple is 16 engy on 2 consecutive mexes. (There is a travel time of 1 second between the two).

The graph doesn't show it clearly, but you have slightly more mass in the orange line at the end.
The payback time will be slightly lower (I was too lazy to get back to 1800 for each

So yes, I did took a travel time. But without, it's like saying "I have 32 engy vs 8 engy" (or teleporting engy that start assisting in 0 seconds).
It's an arbitrary travel time. It does not matter at all, but unless it's less than 1 second, (one second for moving, one second to start the assist), it will be better to do them consecutively.
And the bigger the travel time will be, the worst it will be for the purple line.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 04 Apr 2013, 15:41

Re: Results and correct answers of the survey

2013-04-04T15:03:20+02:00

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 04 Apr 2013, 15:03