Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2012-01-02T05:06:05+02:00 /feed.php?f=2&t=317 2012-01-02T05:06:05+02:00 2012-01-02T05:06:05+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4597#p4597 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>

thanks
roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 02 Jan 2012, 05:06


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2012-01-01T17:49:03+02:00 2012-01-01T17:49:03+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4576#p4576 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]> Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 01 Jan 2012, 17:49


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2011-12-31T06:34:41+02:00 2011-12-31T06:34:41+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4540#p4540 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>
A time related score would be nice, and would work in almost all forms of co-op play… Survival, TeamPlay, Missions…maybe divide final score by time factor. Maybe time in minutes.
I would lump Campaign in with Single player Missions, although if you play with an AI ally and against teamed AI its TeamPlay in its basic form. Don't let your AI partner die! or you lose the TeamPlay match.

From my point of view…

I think that there are more important statistics:
‘# of structural loses’ of human built structures [measures pain inflicted by AI],
every 20 strl losses = 1% max 20% score increase

‘# of experimentals built’ by AIs [measures AI attack strength],
every Ex = 1% max 20% score increase

‘amount of mass spent’ and ‘mass wasted’ by AI [measures AI economy]
every 200,000 spent = 1% max 20% score increase
every 10,000 wasted = 1% max 40% reduces your score [this indicates wrong AI selected, the map does not suit any large AI base, you took too long to kill the AI or severe unit build restrictions in place… like ‘no game enders’.

Some way of recording ‘available game-speed [console ren_shownetstats] at say 50mins[per 5min interval] through to game end’ and log it would help mapmakers test their maps.

Maybe with these stats logged and applied the score could be useful when compared to time.

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 31 Dec 2011, 06:34


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2011-12-30T23:30:31+02:00 2011-12-30T23:30:31+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4517#p4517 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]> Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 30 Dec 2011, 23:30


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2011-12-30T23:17:48+02:00 2011-12-30T23:17:48+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4516#p4516 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]> Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 30 Dec 2011, 23:17


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2011-12-30T12:26:35+02:00 2011-12-30T12:26:35+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4471#p4471 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]> “GiveAdog Isle”
It is also available at GpG FA Vault.]

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 30 Dec 2011, 12:26


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2011-12-29T13:28:00+02:00 2011-12-29T13:28:00+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4402#p4402 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>
I tried to play against AIX Tech, with BlackOps mods enabled, under 3610 and the AIX Tech did not build any custom units.

I guess no mods can add custom units to 3610? Nomads?

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 29 Dec 2011, 13:28


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2011-12-28T01:31:17+02:00 2011-12-28T01:31:17+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4332#p4332 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>
AwarE wrote:
Thanks for pinpointing the problem Kenquinn… well done.

I hope these questions are not too naive or inane.

1. Does that mean that custom units from any mod are not supported under 3610, or do other mods use a different method?
2. Do you think it would be a problem for 3610 to include ‘InitializeSkirmishSystems’ in aibrain.lua?
3. If it does cause a problem, then can ‘AddCustomUnitSupport’ be called from somewhere else?

roj


[edit]
Exavier Macbeth has given info here:
http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31172&start=6375

1) All units that utilized the Sorian AI support for custom units should be broken.
2) Sorian's AI overrides, or merges the InitializeSkirmishSystems function in aibrain.lua it not being included in FAF was either an oversight, or intended. Not knowing more about FA's AI in general and what FAF does to the AI I do not know what would happen.
3) As per question two I do not know enough about the code to know what would happen.

Statistics: Posted by Kenquinn — 28 Dec 2011, 01:31


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2011-12-28T00:00:42+02:00 2011-12-28T00:00:42+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4330#p4330 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>

Exavier Macbeth at GpG BlackOps forum...

Basically the way the AI works in the game is that there are two things that are needed to make it work.

There is the core AI coding that deals mostly with timing & stratagy. This was what Sorian originally started modding and a few others as well. Very few coders however would touch this because its almost as badly coded as several of the UI commands. Its also why AI mods are overwrite mods rather than Mod Manager Mods.

There is the build template files that control all the platoon, Upgrade, and build order information used by the AI. These files are huge but its what I had to hook to get the AI to build the BO:ACUs upgrades. Before sorian came along the only way to get custom units to be built would be to add your unit into this file and modify the hundreads of groupings... The downside is that alot of time mods would overwrite eachothers changes.

When sorian created his AI mods he added in calls that looked for a custom unit template within the mod folders. This way we modders just have to build a template file for our mods and his code would handle the integration/hooking. From what it sounds like this is where FAF is having issues because if those calls got broke then none of our custom units will be loaded. Especially since this template file is automatically ignored by the game unless something specifically calls it. It is also the only true "AI Support" that any Blackops project (and most unit projects) offer.

Also for the record... When we set up the templates for Blackops we purposefully left specific units out of the templates because they featured more complex functionality to use than the AI can understand. Hydrocarbons are one of the things that fall under this because we didn't want to write a 2nd upgrade hook like I did for BO:ACUs (was a pain in the butt).

---
Basically you might want to relay that information to the FAF team so they can look at their implementation of Sorians Mod. From my understanding FAF was suppose to be GPGnet on steroids and allow them to make any mod or component plug & play. Chances are when they converted the Sorian AI over to their system they broike a linkage in one of the scripts. He does have alot of things hard coded in his code which is why BO:ACU still has slightly twitchy commander usage by the AI (He tries to force build an upgrade that doesn't exist on my commanders)... But things like file lookup paths would probobly need to be corrected if FAF is not running sorians files from the proper installation area.

Hope it helps. Unfortunatly going through another modders code is a pain in the butt at the best of times just due to coding & thought process differences. Especially for areas we don't normally play with. Most of us who are still arround don't have the time or skill to make the corrections properly. And I haven't looked at FAF closely enough to have a starting point on what needs to changed if I had the time

@aeoncleanse: Here you go. Will poke hawk about the main links.
ZIP: http://www.hyperimpact.net/downloads/Bl ... v52zip.zip
SCD: http://www.hyperimpact.net/downloads/Bl ... v52scd.zip

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 28 Dec 2011, 00:00


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2011-12-27T23:39:46+02:00 2011-12-27T23:39:46+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4324#p4324 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>
I hope these questions are not too naive or inane.

1. Does that mean that custom units from any mod are not supported under 3610, or do other mods use a different method?
2. Do you think it would be a problem for 3610 to include ‘InitializeSkirmishSystems’ in aibrain.lua?
3. If it does cause a problem, then can ‘AddCustomUnitSupport’ be called from somewhere else?

roj


[edit]
Exavier Macbeth has given info here:
http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31172&start=6375

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 27 Dec 2011, 23:39


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2011-12-27T19:29:12+02:00 2011-12-27T19:29:12+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4318#p4318 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>
Ze_PilOt wrote:
It's a problem with blackops, you should see that with his author.

  • FAF's port of Sorian AI does not call InitializeSkirmishSystems in aibrain.lua
  • InitializeSkirmishSystems contains a call to AddCustomUnitSupport
  • AddCustomUnitSupport does what it's name says
FAF's port of Sorian AI would seem to be at fault.

Statistics: Posted by Kenquinn — 27 Dec 2011, 19:29


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2011-12-26T06:07:51+02:00 2011-12-26T06:07:51+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4289#p4289 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>

The problem isn’t with BlackOps. It’s with the people who broke how Sorians AI calls stuff in 3610.

…and…

Sounds to me that whoever took over and updated Sorians AI for 3610 broke something in his calls



…and in another FAF forum thread about Sorian and 3610 we find…


FunkOff wrote:
I did not integrate the lobby enhancement mod because we were already using moritz's lobby mod... and it didn't really occur to me, because I don't play skirmish and don't know anybody who does, to implement LEM's features because I was unaware of them. I noted the ability to search for maps that have AI markers, but I couldn't get that to work right in the UI so scrapped that idea.


Are these issues tied together in some way?
In other words does the BlackOps mod depend on Sorian LEM being present at all?

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 26 Dec 2011, 06:07


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2011-12-24T00:54:11+02:00 2011-12-24T00:54:11+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4257#p4257 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]>
... the 3610 guys are saying its a BlackOps problem

... as you say… all that’s needed with units is for Sorian AI to lookup some transpose table and build an alternative BlackOps unit when BlackOps mod is enabled.

How would the AI know about upgrading hydrocarbon power plants?
What about the T4 upgrade addition … where does the AI get those instructions?

The BlackOps mods inject ‘good old TA fun’ into the 3610 patch, and at the same time 3610 provides an increase in game-speed and smoothness.

FAF has faster game/chat servers than GpGnet; that also improves the overall game experience and I think will bring more people into the FA community.

Is it possible for a kind BlackOps coder to sort this out with Sorian?


roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 24 Dec 2011, 00:54


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2011-12-23T14:45:58+02:00 2011-12-23T14:45:58+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4251#p4251 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]> Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 23 Dec 2011, 14:45


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2011-12-23T14:43:46+02:00 2011-12-23T14:43:46+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=317&p=4250#p4250 <![CDATA[Re: Co-op modes]]> I must retract my last post as we have found that BlackOps is not fully compatible with 3610.

Sorian AI does not build many of the BlackOps units, although they are available to build by the human players. So far the only new BlackOps unit that I have seen the AI build is the Aeon Experimental Air donut shaped gunship.

Its great fun using the powerful BlackOps units… but its not a fair fight when the AI does not build them as well.

Looks like some coding work is needed to merge the Sorian AI in BlackOps with the Sorian AI in 3610.

roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 23 Dec 2011, 14:43


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