Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-10T09:49:06+02:00

i honestly don't see the problem with mass storages

instead of building them, you can upgrade more extractors to t2, which provides a better income for your costs. if you want massstorages around protected mexes, deal with the little micro you have to do for it, you get more protected mass income in return.
if the game is at a stage you can build t3 mexes, you won't have alot time problems anyway, people tend to get lazy in lategame stages, so you often won't have to fear drops and such stuff, enough time to build your storages...

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 10 Feb 2013, 09:49

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-10T09:43:09+02:00

Rocksteady wrote:
I think starcraft can be used as a good example in this thread. In the original you had to manually move every single scv/drone/probe to collect resources. Now they automatically mine where u set the rally point. I don't think a single person would want to go back to the old method, the game has improved leaps and bounds.

I don't know if its even possible but a passive over-time effect on mexes would be good. When you first build a t1 mex have it start at +2 and gain +x mass per minute until after 4-5 minutes it has full bonus of mass storage, if it's killed it resets to +2. Similar values could be added for t2 and t3 mex, it would remove mass storage annoyance and open up some interesting game play.

While the game does become easier in terms of managing eco, it also becomes harder and more damaging if you lose it so good players would still have an edge, sniping opponents mexes, raiding etc

It would also open up more risk/reward between teching vs t1 spam as the earlier you make t2 mex the quicker you'll gain the bonus.

man, mass storages are a part of the game, deal with it

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 10 Feb 2013, 09:43

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-10T09:01:19+02:00

I really dont get it. Whats so annoying about mass storages? The longer the game goes, you'll need it anyway to be able to get more reclaim at once and get a cheaper upgrade on t3. Building them is really not much work to do.

An increasing massproduction over time? I dont think this would do any good. It would just make the game even more complicated.

Statistics: Posted by CrayzyNath — 10 Feb 2013, 09:01

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-10T06:30:47+02:00

I think starcraft can be used as a good example in this thread. In the original you had to manually move every single scv/drone/probe to collect resources. Now they automatically mine where u set the rally point. I don't think a single person would want to go back to the old method, the game has improved leaps and bounds.

I don't know if its even possible but a passive over-time effect on mexes would be good. When you first build a t1 mex have it start at +2 and gain +x mass per minute until after 4-5 minutes it has full bonus of mass storage, if it's killed it resets to +2. Similar values could be added for t2 and t3 mex, it would remove mass storage annoyance and open up some interesting game play.

While the game does become easier in terms of managing eco, it also becomes harder and more damaging if you lose it so good players would still have an edge, sniping opponents mexes, raiding etc

It would also open up more risk/reward between teching vs t1 spam as the earlier you make t2 mex the quicker you'll gain the bonus.

Statistics: Posted by Rocksteady — 10 Feb 2013, 06:30

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-09T14:19:14+02:00

People get too caught up on the idea that if there's less clicking in one part of the game there will be some gaping hole left and you'll suddenly be playing Sup Com 2. As TLO said in an interview a while back there's more opportunity to micro units in Sup Com than anywhere else. It'll just shift it to battle micro and reclaiming, which at least varies from map to map.

I like the idea of microing skirmishes. That's different every game. Building mass storage is the same everytime. I know it's a matter of taste but when i'm on my 10th game of the day i think this is still fun but the ecoing is fucking repetitive. It's also the only area of the game requires very precise clicking and i find that annoying in this engine when i'm trying to go quickly.

The build distance bug may seem like a small thing but because of the exponential economy 5 seconds there means a minute lost later on. I've got the hang of this better than other aspects cos you've nothing else to do i just think it's very counter intuitive.

Statistics: Posted by BLITZ_Molloy — 09 Feb 2013, 14:19

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-08T21:11:29+02:00

Out of curiosity, why doesn't the commander always build at its max buildrange?

Statistics: Posted by GallantDragon — 08 Feb 2013, 21:11

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-08T11:43:54+02:00

i think we can cut a lot of "useless" stuff before having looking like starcraft.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 08 Feb 2013, 11:43

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-08T11:09:06+02:00

giving my 2 cents to this topic: i would be fine with the "build at max build distance suggestion" although i dont see its needed too mutch. the only time where it really matters is really early in game(where u have enough time to do it). if u do it midgame in order to build up a wall faster for example it feels fair to me that u have a little build time benefit for investing the time to make the right move order.
changing massstorages i something i dont like, with a template and a bit of aiming skills it is really no issue to place them.

overall i noticed a lot of posts are about to make eco management easier to gain time for unit micro. i think that is a bad way to go. one thing i really like about the game is that u can choose between investing your apm into micro or macro in order to get different advantages. by cutting those option of and make unit micro the dominant thing taking your apm the game looses something important and will turn it into something like starcraft or c&c.

Statistics: Posted by laPPen — 08 Feb 2013, 11:09

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-07T22:54:17+02:00

It seems like it comes down to make the game easier with less depth so it's more accessible to new or weaker players.

Are you seriously of the opinion that its depth when an action takes 2-4 clicks instead of 1?

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 07 Feb 2013, 22:54

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-07T12:23:27+02:00

Flynn wrote:
You have got Zock from the pro camp giving his approval and UES_Sheppard from the pro camp giving his disapproval

it's important that Zock is the only one from pro camp, he plays on a totally different level, however i disagree with most of non-balance related change:
Never change a running system.

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 07 Feb 2013, 12:23

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-07T09:34:09+02:00

ZaphodX wrote:
This is just a slippery slope though, why not make mass storage automatic too, and maybe have idle engineers reclaim or assist for you. Doing these things is what separates good players and great players.

There is a difference though between these examples and adding a move command for better build behaviour. The former requires (at least some) thought, ie. 'when do I upgrade?', 'how do I use my engies at any given time?', where as the latter is just mindless: it is always the best thing to do, there are no instances where putting a move order before a build order will result in a worse build.

Statistics: Posted by Wakke — 07 Feb 2013, 09:34

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-07T09:14:19+02:00

It's interesting how divided opinions are on this one. You have got Zock from the pro camp giving his approval and UES_Sheppard from the pro camp giving his disapproval

Statistics: Posted by Flynn — 07 Feb 2013, 09:14

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-07T04:01:39+02:00

This is just a slippery slope though, why not make mass storage automatic too, and maybe have idle engineers reclaim or assist for you. Doing these things is what separates good players and great players. Having all these techniques gives you so much to learn and get better at. If you want to improve then there's always going to be growth for you to improve, if you don't want to put the effort in then you just don't get that bonus. You can still play you just won't beat the players that have mastered all the nuances of being an efficient player.

It seems like it comes down to make the game easier with less depth so it's more accessible to new or weaker players. Isn't that SupCom 2?

Statistics: Posted by ZaphodX — 07 Feb 2013, 04:01

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-07T02:23:25+02:00

I think the two purposed changes in the start post would be great. (And thats more or less said by a majority since some years, so i doubt the second one is easy to fix, and the first one will need someone who does a new model for a t2,5 mex or another solution)

SupCom is about strategy afterall, and not about making the game hard by requiering clicking work.

People complaining about the game getting easier would also complain about the shift key and all its uses or the repeat production button, if it weren't already implemented..

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 07 Feb 2013, 02:23

Re: Thoughts on accessibility

2013-02-07T00:56:35+02:00

Well, the same argumentation your could make on gaz_ui and zulans hotbuild mod.

You need micro you mouse to build several units if you dont have them installed. They make the games more confortable and save time. They dont make the core of the game easier. And the range thing would make the same. IF it is even possible to do make it.

Statistics: Posted by Bibblson — 07 Feb 2013, 00:56