Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-02-10T12:49:01+02:00

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 10 Feb 2013, 12:49

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T18:03:35+02:00

Also AIs games last longer, and if the guy has some connection problem, as he is alone the server will detect his game until he relog, so it's normal that there is more AI games.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 17 Jan 2013, 18:03

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T16:50:07+02:00

just copy the old file create a hook folder and put it in there --> shield change reverted without knowing anything about modding

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 17 Jan 2013, 16:50

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T16:21:40+02:00

AwarE wrote:
Experienced players will have no problem adapting to changes in balance. I personally have found that I can easily use the russian doll approach and survive two LRCs. But what I am concerned about is that I see the reaction from less experienced players on maps where I have set markers to promote the AI to build many LRCs and it is not good. As soon as their shields go down they leave the game in progress and say they won't play FAF again. I have encouraged them to keep playing by using other featured mods like Supreme Destruction or BO and leave FAF to the ladder players. Is this what you want?

The point of balancing is to maintain a competitive game, because as fun as playing against AIs can be, it also doesn't provide as much variety as playing against other players. Has it occured to these players you speak of that if the AI can build these "LRC" that they can build them too? If you cannot get t3 arty quicker than the AI then you have the difficulty set too high. The whole point of the changes was to make turtling less effective, so that a more skilled player can attack and beat a less skilled player who turtles. I am glad that the patch has worked for you.

You claim to speak for the majority, yet I don't see any evidence of that. Just because more games have AIs in than not does not imply more players play vs AI more than other human players. The average player count in a human vs AI game is much lower than in custom games.

Then we have the assertion that the balance change categorically make playing vs AI less fun, something which I have yet to see any evidence for either. In fact in my experience, the new patch promotes more inventive play when fighting AI.

I am especially puzzled as to why you think people leave because their shields go down? Shields still went down before the last patch so if thats the main reason people leave then its not exactly a new thing. Is your desired solution to make shields invincible? Or how strong is strong enough for you? How many shields should it take to counter several t3/exp arty?

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 17 Jan 2013, 16:21

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T16:07:07+02:00

@ ZePilot ...I know you don't understand that is the whole point of this thread.
Experienced players will have no problem adapting to changes in balance. I personally have found that I can easily use the russian doll approach and survive two LRCs. But what I am concerned about is that I see the reaction from less experienced players on maps where I have set markers to promote the AI to build many LRCs and it is not good. As soon as their shields go down they leave the game in progress and say they won't play FAF again. I have encouraged them to keep playing by using other featured mods like Supreme Destruction or BO and leave FAF to the ladder players. Is this what you want?
@ColonelSheppard
Thanks for the offer to help with a mod, I admit I know nothing about modding.
You may be right in that I don't need a separate server, what I need is a separate chat. I see the Nomads chat tab is not being used at all atm, maybe a simple solution would be to just change its name to Co-Op.
If I were to do a "Co-Op GamePlay" mod I would just return shields to what they were b4 the neft. Also maybe its possible in a mod to set the game options to default to 'TeamPlayAI' conditions? Such as 'Annihilation' victory condition and have the game immediately end with a 'Team Loss' if any Human commander dies or leaves. I guess a score system for this would be too much trouble.
I can easily remove any unit such as LRCs or nukes from the game by adding a restriction to the map and on some maps I do exactly that. There was nothing wrong with LRCs until shields were nerfed. I like the AI to have all its deadly weapons and it was good fun to survive the endgame against them.
roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 17 Jan 2013, 16:07

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T14:24:51+02:00

AwarE wrote:
I checked every one of those live replays by running them for a short time.
roj

ah ok nvm

ColonelSheppard wrote:
if you need help with basic modding (means changing values or removing things like mavor from ai games) there are many people that can help you (even me)
an "Co-op Gameplay" - Mod seems to be a viable and easy solution, i mean you can disable the AI hardcounters like t4 arty, nuke etc. by default them and nobody has to think about rules anymore, could be also an featured mod for easy hosting

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 17 Jan 2013, 14:24

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T14:13:27+02:00

I checked every one of those live replays by running them for a short time. I know what AIs were being used, why don't you go take a look for yourself. There is a completely different set of replays there atm but the % of game type has not changed.
roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 17 Jan 2013, 14:13

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T13:39:47+02:00

ehm

why is AI_Adaptive one time shown and the other times not?
how do you know they do not just sandboxing or make fun 1v1 on setons?
and why should the play at an ai only sever if they can play on an AI AND PvP sever, too

if you need help with basic modding (means changing values or removing things like mavor from ai games) there are many people that can help you (even me)
an "Co-op Gameplay" - Mod seems to be a viable and easy solution, i mean you can disable the AI hardcounters like t4 arty, nuke etc. by default them and nobody has to think about rules anymore, could be also an featured mod for easy hosting

Off Topic: hehe somebody is called stargate xD

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 17 Jan 2013, 13:39

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T13:13:41+02:00

I don't understand.

They are currently playing, and they don't complain of the balance.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 17 Jan 2013, 13:13

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-17T12:03:12+02:00

Here is a graphic example of what I have been talking about.
It is a list of live replays on 17th Jan 2013.
You can see the same game types any day you wish to veiw live replays.

There are 33 live replays available to view.

Ladder games = 1 .....3%

Custom Multiplayer Human verses Human Games = 7 ....21%

Custom Multiplayer Human Team verses AI Team Games = 12 .....36%

Custom Single Player verses AI Games = 12 .....36%

Survival Games =1 ....3%

As you can see 75% of those games are against AI.

Why don't you people make some attempt to cater to the silent majority?
Instead you only listen to the 1v1 shrills and head-bangers.

roj

Note: the overlaps have not been counted twice, they are there to show the continuity of the screenshots.

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 17 Jan 2013, 12:03

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-12T02:07:11+02:00

Ok .... I will take that as an official knock back.

Thanks for the tips on shields, I may be a half blind cranky old bastard ...but I am adaptable. I do build SCU's already and were using them to build expansions under their para shields. I will try using them in base defense, along with other russian dolls as you suggest.
Your mass comparison 18k verse 91.5k was rather convincing. I was looking at shields as a defense utility not a weapon, more like an anti-nuke that costs much less than a nuke. Will anti-nukes get the same treatment? Three anti-nuke instalations are able to defend a 10 nuke volley no problem atm. Thats 20k verses 150k in mass.

Co-Op

At present when a player sets up a TeamPlayAI match and says in chat "Come to my game for a bot stomp" or "Let fight the AI" he is bombarded by comments from experienced players saying "You will never learn anything if you play against AI" or "The AI is useless, don't waste my time". These negative comments come from players who have never played a TeamPlayAI game or if they have it was incorrectly setup.
Instead of these denigrating comments there should be advice from good players on how to set game options so the AI will perform at its best. If we had a separate chat we could avoid the spam from the headbangers and get on with organizing a fun Co-Op AI match.

I imagined that a separate Co-Op server may be able to run a different score system than the present system, one that allows Annihilation mode and is TeamPlayAI friendly. By that I mean a score sys that counts games played against AIs and gives a rating from AI matches won under true TeamPlayAI conditions. I think it would have a different ambience than the cut-throat egotistical current version of FAF and would be hugely popular.
Seems it is all just a pipe-dream...
roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 12 Jan 2013, 02:07

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-11T14:01:11+02:00

AwarE wrote:
When I was first invited to bring my maps across to FAF, part of the enticement was that FAF has a Co-Op server. I joined FAF and sure enough on the bottom tabs there was a Co-Op tab. When you clicked that tab it said 'Coming Soon'. Now that tab has disappeared and you seem to be talking like it never existed or was never intended to be part of FAF.
roj

There was never a plan to make a co-op server.

There was a plan to ease up hosting survivals and co-op oriented games. This will probably be part of Galactic War.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 11 Jan 2013, 14:01

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-11T13:53:58+02:00

what is the point of an extra tab? or an extra server?
why would anybody use a just-co-op sever if there is one where you can play coop vs. ai AND normal???

mod is just copy n' paste you could evan use the dschojkov mod

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 11 Jan 2013, 13:53

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-11T13:38:21+02:00

When I was first invited to bring my maps across to FAF, part of the enticement was that FAF has a Co-Op server. I joined FAF and sure enough on the bottom tabs there was a Co-Op tab. When you clicked that tab it said 'Coming Soon'. Now that tab has disappeared and you seem to be talking like it never existed or was never intended to be part of FAF.
roj

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 11 Jan 2013, 13:38

Re: Co-Op Server

2013-01-11T11:33:44+02:00

AwarE wrote:
I do not pretend to speak for the 80% ...I just said there are good ideas amongst them that are ignored at present.

They are ignored because they don't participate in any discussion. So I guess I have to use my mind reading power .. Let's try it .. Let's see what you think about ..
OH MY GOD THAT DISGUSTING !! STOP IT !! PERVERT !!!

No, I can't handle that much, you will have to write them, sorry.

AwarE wrote:
I want a Co-Op Campaign Server where people can play solely against AI in Annihilation mode. A fun place to be where all skill levels can play together in teams against bots. You don't kill your m8 ...you co-operate.

For 16 euros/month on the paypal account, that can be done.

Or you can just make a one-file mod Or learn to adapt (tip : the UEF SCU parashield is cheaper, mobile, 51k HP, best regen, and not affected by the nerf. Can also build T2 shields anywhere under its own dome).

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 11 Jan 2013, 11:33