Forged Alliance Forever

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-20T10:35:58+02:00

HEAVY wrote:
That last point I believe is the ultimate measure -- 21% is indeed acceptable, can we get that number sliced by top 10/100/1000 players?

meaningless numbers, as they don't play the same faction forever but also switch around like alot others
-> at one point it might be 50% of them play cybran, at another point maybe 5% play it...

the numbers which count the most are the ladder map stats, the only two maps i see cybran beeing worst are Vale of Isis and Roanoke Abyss.
isn't it weird that you all call a faction underpowered, their acu too weak etc, when cybran obviously does pretty well in ranked games? they have been weak in many aspects of the game, some of them are gone but some need to remain in order to have a BALANCED FACTION - not a balanced ACU.
if you complain their acu is too weak, there are 3 other factions to go, but they also have disadvantages... you only switch one disadvantage for another when taking another faction.

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 20 Oct 2012, 10:35

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-20T10:17:48+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
- deathnuke is 2500 dmg not 4000
- if you fire 1 shot a 100dmg you need at least 1:30 to kill the other ACU: honestly if another ACU can follow you 1:30min through your base, you do not deserve a win and you do not even deserve a draw, you deserve a lose
- if you think Cybran are UP you can play other factions 21% play-rate is acceptable for 4 factions i guess

That last point I believe is the ultimate measure -- 21% is indeed acceptable, can we get that number sliced by top 10/100/1000 players?

Statistics: Posted by HEAVY — 20 Oct 2012, 10:17

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-17T15:16:22+02:00

in fact that would be a solution to reduce the difference

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 17 Oct 2012, 15:16

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-17T15:09:38+02:00

Another solution - Increase Cybrans death nuke damage to 3500.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 17 Oct 2012, 15:09

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-17T07:33:52+02:00

i ve got the impression people not reading the original first posts. it was asuggestion why cybran is played so less in 1v1 not a complaining. and you never need 1:30 to run behind another acu. what i was calculating is simply that uef needs to make 1 arti hit and then keep with tanks the same damage on the enemy acu up like it is on his acu to win. and with tanks this process goes much more fast. and under this cirumstances that both have tanks cybran needs to damage the uef acu in such a acu push situation for 4500 damage more to win than he will get on his acu. uef needs to do only 500 damage to lead in an equal battle to win. and about this difference i ve been complaining because if nuke would be higher very aggressive uef pushing would be punished with draw. the relation of this damage changes from 9:1 to 3:1 if death nuke will be raised to 4000 damage. of course that would lead to more forced draws. but on the other hand gives cybran in low maps much more tolerance in handling the acu. because big acus cannot hunt until death.

easy picture cybran vs UEF
Cybran needs to damage the UEF Acu for 4500 Damage more than he will get in a close battle to win
UEF needs to damage the cybran acu 500 Damage more than he will get in a close battle to win

this difference is extreme. with higher death nuke cybran can keep more life before uef acu has to retreat not to get a draw and so can more easy survive the remaining tanks. because atm the cybran has basically 500 life left when uef acu has in an equal battle to retreat not to get a forced draw and thats not enough for a few tanks. with high nuke still 2000 life would remain to escape from tanks.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 17 Oct 2012, 07:33

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T20:35:51+02:00

- deathnuke is 2500 dmg not 4000
- if you fire 1 shot a 100dmg you need at least 1:30 to kill the other ACU: honestly if another ACU can follow you 1:30min through your base, you do not deserve a win and you do not even deserve a draw, you deserve a lose
- if you think Cybran are UP you can play other factions 21% play-rate is acceptable for 4 factions i guess

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 16 Oct 2012, 20:35

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T20:03:18+02:00

thats to complicated to calculate, some of you postin strange numbers xD wich i don't trust
I can add the fact what mantis turret movement speed is lowest so it is unmicroable and 2 mantis dies vs 3 labs when labs are microed, also striker have more hp so there are more possybity for situation whe enemy has many tanks with low hp(who use t2 sera bots will understand) also hard to use mantis coz it dies 1v1 vs taam and striker...
But also i want say that i love t1 cyb arty-medusa, it has great splash and never miss vs big armies (but it has HUGE disadvantage - they are so devastating so they dont even leave wrecks to reclime)
Aslo hunters are good vs taam (taam has maximum overkill vs them)
And thats not all strange things, there are tons of them...

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 16 Oct 2012, 20:03

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T19:32:24+02:00

they aren't broken as they have more health regeneration which makes up for the inferior total hp over time, but only if you use your acu to fight

you should ask why the aeon acu has 1k hp less than the uef acu and no regeneration bonus as compensation!

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 16 Oct 2012, 19:32

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T18:47:56+02:00

Leave it as it is, its not broken! Cybran have the best everything at t1 except for their arty, and their ACU does actually have a higher regen than the others. The discussion should be about how we should nerf them. Lets make their ACUs health 9000, that would work.

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 16 Oct 2012, 18:47

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T18:38:55+02:00

Changing the com bomb damage up again would encourage people to go for draws if they think it would help their rating, and lead to games where thats all people aim to do. I think 2500 damage is enough.

I agree with this. Would not want that.

Increasing Hp to 10500 would be a good idea.

The stats difference between tanks is irrelevant as the cybran arty is so shit against everything but frigates compared to all the others.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 16 Oct 2012, 18:38

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T18:37:49+02:00

Front loaded, but does this mean much less damage when being microed against?

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 16 Oct 2012, 18:37

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T18:05:00+02:00

Build time's the same, though, so in general you're not going to be getting more army out.

Edit: No it isn't lol.
This changes things, you can get your army out slightly faster as cybran. However, strikers are more front loaded, so it's give and take there.

Statistics: Posted by Gowerly — 16 Oct 2012, 18:05

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T16:57:50+02:00

They have a high win percentage because I use them Oo

But also ten mantis cost 520 mass and ten strikers cost 560 mass, so a 40 mass difference. Thats nearly another mantis.

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 16 Oct 2012, 16:57

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T16:27:16+02:00

Sometimes stats dont work out in game the same way they do on paper. Rock claims that 10 strikers easily beat 10 mantis. I have never tested this myself, but it would be interesting to find out.

Regardless of all the reasoning. The fact remains that cybran have a high win percentage on most maps, including many 5x5. How is that explained ?

Statistics: Posted by CrazedChariot — 16 Oct 2012, 16:27

Re: ACU Push/Nuke

2012-10-16T16:19:57+02:00

Mantis is better than striker for:
per unit mass the mantis has 19.7% more dps
It has repair ability
It is9% faster.

Mantis is worse than striker for:
per unit mass it has 3% less health.
costs 2.6% more energy per mantis

The two are the same for:
Number of shots required from ACU

So basically yes the UEF get rambo ACUs, but Cybran get rambo bots so the percieved weakness of Cybran in early game is largely due to either incorrect use or assumed incorrect use of them. (Lets not forget they have t1 gunships too)

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 16 Oct 2012, 16:19