Forged Alliance Forever

Re: quick feature

2019-07-02T13:21:32+02:00

locking the topic since the OP got his answer in the first post and this has derailed far enough

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 02 Jul 2019, 13:21

Re: quick feature

2019-07-02T11:32:50+02:00

--- wrote:
A few comments are based on untested hypotheses

Usually when you make something you come up with some ideas first and bash them around before you go through any form of arduous testing. Your idea that dumping the rules in people's face will resolve ctrl k has about as much testing as anyone else.

--- wrote:
--> you could have a warning pop up if you press ctrl k within time x "Are you sure you want to ctrl+k? This may result in a warning/ban" [if technically possible; it would be automated. If only one does not pull through with ctrl+k, would that not be a win?

I know this is semantics, but:
If I "May" get fined for speeding, I'm still going to speed
If I "will" get fined, won't.

Also, don't expect people to know ctrl-k as a jargon, new players don't, some 700 rated players don't, and as soon as you rebind your keys it's suddenly incorrect.

Besides that, if people know theyll get an annoying popup if they ctrl k theyll just force close the game.

We should just be avoiding popups in general, to be honest.

Also, i iterated on a new ladder screen at work today, should be up when I get home n all.

Statistics: Posted by biass — 02 Jul 2019, 11:32

Re: quick feature

2019-07-02T10:51:31+02:00

What is the aim? Do you want to put the rules in a corner to say "it's there. your problem if you dont look for it" or do you want to make sure it is as likely as possible people see rules and hopefully ultimately the ctrl+k rate is being reduced??
I asked if there is data available on how often people clicked on the rules link. How often is the rules page visited/from where?
If data is available, basic statistical analysis could be conducted. If the link has been clicked 17 times in 1 year with 200 new players - you could blame all the lazy players, or you could consider the placement of the rules to be ineffective.

The "arguments" brought forth here are:
- noone would read anyway
- who needs rules (displayed) when there is "common sense"
- why add rules more visibly, when QAI spams them anyway (click rate?)?
- why add clearly visible rules when a violation will result in a warning anyway?
- it's just "security theater" bc it doesnt address the underlying issue
- people are dumb/selfish anyway, so it doesn't matter
- clearly displaying rules once equals "shoving rules down someone's throat"
- there is no lobby page for ladder (?)
- transit is too short (?)
- rules are too long to be displayed (?)
- noone clicks on links (?)
- make automated report after time x has passed
--> you could have a warning pop up if you press ctrl k within time x "Are you sure you want to ctrl+k? This may result in a warning/ban" [if technically possible; it would be automated. If only one does not pull through with ctrl+k, would that not be a win(?)]

A few comments are based on untested hypotheses/reflect a lack of understanding of the proposed measure to improve the situation. A few comments address things which were not proposed in the first place.

As said before, it is about cost-benefit ratio, and adding an initial display of information has very little cost, and imo a very small chance of harming in terms of alienating people and make them leave for good. It also would add to transparency.

Also: how have teamkill-incidents developed ever since auto-report was introduced (e.g. number of reports)? Is there data available on this? Anyone looking at it?

Statistics: Posted by --- — 02 Jul 2019, 10:51

Re: quick feature

2019-07-02T09:27:58+02:00

I mean it could work as a deterrent, some people legitimately don't know just add that one rule to the tips and sometimes it'll show.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 02 Jul 2019, 09:27

Re: quick feature

2019-07-02T06:28:07+02:00

relent0r wrote:
If the stats got split out to a dedicated tab this page could be simplified which makes things like rules easier to place real estate wise. You could have player stats linked similar to the 'show ladder maps' option there.

This is a fair suggestion but I don't think we should segment everything.

Half the screen isn't being used to start, and further more due to a lack of real heirachy, a lot of the elements on the page are already inhabiting way more space than they should be.

Furtherfurthermore: a lot of the game rules, such as teamkiilling, don't really apply to ladder. The rest shouldnt need anything else than a small hover icon.

If faf makes the option to search enticing to users as soon as they enter this screen, we should keep the ability to see your stats there so that theyre inclined to open said screen. Getting people to play is the most important thing faf needs to do, so I hope that people can look at their stats while theyre in queue.

Statistics: Posted by biass — 02 Jul 2019, 06:28

Re: quick feature

2019-07-02T04:37:21+02:00

biass wrote:
My five minutes of fun, thanks box for the screencap:

While i'm here, i only ever used the java client to upload maps, has this always looked this bad?

I thought i could have a nice time moving some elements around to fit something in but..

I imagine my science teacher saw something similar putting away what was left of the frogs?
I'm not even very happy with my work because of this, this entire screen needs to be redone.

I'll be generous, mind if i draw something up while im working tomorrow?

anyway, gn

If the stats got split out to a dedicated tab this page could be simplified which makes things like rules easier to place real estate wise. You could have player stats linked similar to the 'show ladder maps' option there.

Statistics: Posted by relent0r — 02 Jul 2019, 04:37

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T21:57:40+02:00

you are all un-intentional roleplayers

there have been more posts in this thread per day than ladder games

Statistics: Posted by Bennis- — 01 Jul 2019, 21:57

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T20:23:50+02:00

h-hai, farmsletje s-sama!!!!!

Statistics: Posted by biass — 01 Jul 2019, 20:23

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T20:21:34+02:00

Please be more constructive!

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 01 Jul 2019, 20:21

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T20:10:23+02:00

My five minutes of fun, thanks box for the screencap:

While i'm here, i only ever used the java client to upload maps, has this always looked this bad?

I thought i could have a nice time moving some elements around to fit something in but..

I imagine my science teacher saw something similar putting away what was left of the frogs?
I'm not even very happy with my work because of this, this entire screen needs to be redone.

I'll be generous, mind if i draw something up while im working tomorrow?

anyway, gn

Statistics: Posted by biass — 01 Jul 2019, 20:10

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T19:50:41+02:00

? ninrai, i thought you "did" design? You should know better than to assume people will correlate such a stretch. Show don't tell n all that. Screencapping downlords client and adding another grey box should be within a minutes worth of work anyway. Not that i think it's a good idea to add pop-ups in the first place.

I honestly thought the patchnotes appearing every game was a bug, not a feature.

Ironically, about:

If you actually read what I have written numerous times... noone said "a sentence", noone said "loading screen", noone said "full page of rules"

People did. Your voice isnt the only one in this conversation?

Statistics: Posted by biass — 01 Jul 2019, 19:50

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T19:03:40+02:00

I thought to add "the picture is based on the patch notes in a custom game. Ofc it needs to be adjusted to the ladder tab".
I thought people will be able to mentally transfer the idea to another background screen.
Obviously I was wrong.

Very constructive, thank you Fry!

Statistics: Posted by --- — 01 Jul 2019, 19:03

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T19:00:42+02:00

you don't go into a game lobby when playing a ladder game

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 01 Jul 2019, 19:00

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T18:59:09+02:00

If the sample in this thread is somewhat representative for the overall FAF players group, then indeed a written introduction will not have an effect.

If you actually read what I have written numerous times... noone said "a sentence", noone said "loading screen", noone said "full page of rules". I already linked to the rules, and they are not that many.

Meanwhile, noone cares about patch notes popping up.

The fortune telling is strong in this thread.
I take trial and data over opinion.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 01 Jul 2019, 18:59

Re: quick feature

2019-07-01T17:25:05+02:00

Remember when low energy posts were just removed?

I can already tell you how it will affect the rate of ctrl+k: it won’t.

This is the correct assumption, considering you want to shove a website link written in very patchy at best english - which implies the user can even read english in the first place - as either a gatekeep towards the all important user conversion OR in the miliseconds before the game starts?

As said here:

You don't really need to be told that instaquitting games is not a fun experience for the other player and therefore not allowed, do you?

Just make an automated report, if user in ladder quits in the first 45 seconds: one click report method. In 3 months when the mod team gets to it, they can decide.

If you want to automate "hey, that isnt allowed" put it under or next to the search button in the client. Don't put it in the intransit screen. too many variables.

Statistics: Posted by biass — 01 Jul 2019, 17:25