Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-10-13T23:19:15+02:00

You will not want to invest too many on PGen and Fab though. As soon as you have spare eco, invest heavily on RAS SACU and mobilize your entire eco is the way. Once you got more than 10 SACUs every SACU after that can be used to replace engies.

At that point you can start replacing Engies, Pgen and Fab with Point Def, AA launchers and Shield all around your entire base.

That’s the most efficient late game but whether you can reach that stage or not is a different story.

Statistics: Posted by salemdestroyer — 13 Oct 2019, 23:19

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-10-13T21:36:36+02:00

A t3 mass fab itself (with no adjacency) costs 4000 mass and adds 16 mass per second. For every 250 mass you invest, you get 1 mass/second.

If you ring it with 12 t1 mass storages, that costs 2400 mass and adds about 5.5 mass per second. That costs 437 mass for every 1 mass/second. From a mass standpoint, it is more efficient NOT to ring them.

The main advantage of ringing the mass fab with storages is that it doesn't cost any extra power per second to get this extra mass income.

So if you want to get 100 mass/second, using T3 fabs with no adjacency, you would need 7, which costs 10500 power per second. But using T3 fabs with adjacency, you only need 5, which costs 7500 power per second. Which is one fewer T3 pgen you need to keep everything running. A t3 pgen costs 3240 mass, basically the same price as 16 mass storages. So it is much cheaper to just build the extra T3 pgen compared to 60 mass storages (12 x 5).

The math changes if you make the mass fabs adjacent to T3 pgens, but then you have increased risk of everything exploding in a chain reaction.

If you ring it with t1 pgens, it brings the power needs from 1500 down to 1125. So that is 375 reduction in power for 12 pgens. So each pgen gives 20 power + 31.25 savings. 75 mass for 51.25 generation is a cost of 1.4 mass per power generated. A regular T3 pgen costs only 1.296 mass per power generated. So ringing it with t1 pgens is not a great deal but also not a terrible deal. Slightly less efficient than just making another T3 pgen somewhere. (Which has a different risk profile: your t1 pgens will all die with the mass fab, the t3 pgen won't, but the T3 pgen would also need to be protected or the enemy could pick that off--I can't really say which risk profile is "better")

You also might need to take the unit cap into account. Of course building lots of t1 buildings is bad for your unit cap.

If you had a t3 mass fab with 3 mass storages on the right and then on the right side of that, another t3 mass fab, you would get double the adjacency bonus from the storages. If one mass fab dies, the death explosion will kill the storages and will damage the other mass fab (but not outright kill it--5k damage out of 6k health total). The only way to get double-adjacency is to create risk of a chain reaction. So again, it's probably not worth doing.

Statistics: Posted by armacham01 — 13 Oct 2019, 21:36

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-10-13T12:06:37+02:00

what about putting mass storages around T3 mass fab? is it wort it?

I saw someone do it

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 13 Oct 2019, 12:06

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-10-13T10:37:54+02:00

Probably people too occupied with their micro that they forgot to calculate.

A normal 8 t2 fab give 8 mass income
Surrounding t1 storage with t2 fab as the image showed only give it 9.6 mass

A difference of 1.6 mass.

It does not worth a nail in the coffin.

Rather than surrounding t1 storage with t2 fab. Surrounding t3 power gen with t2 fab are more eco beneficial.

Statistics: Posted by salemdestroyer — 13 Oct 2019, 10:37

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-10-04T23:16:54+02:00

Morax wrote:
Once you finish that the next move is to surround a t3 mass fab with t3 power structures. This is so rarely seen, though, as it's quite inefficient and you can build "game enders" off of the previous eco stages.

rather saw someone surounding them with t1 power instead, probably cause of the volatily of high tier power when massfabs already are highly volatile ..

Statistics: Posted by MrTBSC — 04 Oct 2019, 23:16

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-10-04T17:43:18+02:00

Ah thank you, that clears it up.

Statistics: Posted by StormLantern — 04 Oct 2019, 17:43

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-06-01T11:34:19+02:00

Actually 9,5

https://wiki.faforever.com/index.php?title=Adjacency_Bonus#Mass_2

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 01 Jun 2019, 11:34

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-06-01T10:42:50+02:00

Pretty cool. -800 power is worth +9.6 mass at that point in the game. I need to pay more attention.

Statistics: Posted by Mucko — 01 Jun 2019, 10:42

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-05-14T15:31:39+02:00

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 14 May 2019, 15:31

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-05-14T14:57:25+02:00

This is a late game eco increase that in general is the next step after having "full t3 eco."

You should have plenty of power structures at this stage (likely at least one t3 level) and/ or RAS support commanders.

Once you finish that the next move is to surround a t3 mass fab with t3 power structures. This is so rarely seen, though, as it's quite inefficient and you can build "game enders" off of the previous eco stages.

I suggest making a build template with the mass fabs ringed around the mass storages so it's easy to place.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 14 May 2019, 14:57

Re: Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-05-14T11:49:54+02:00

you'll get adjacency bonus from the mass storages, so with 4 fabs, you end up with +5mass

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 14 May 2019, 11:49

Why put a ring of t2 mass fabs around ur t3mex?

2019-05-14T11:46:46+02:00

It doesnt seem to do anything other than the 1 mass increase and 100 power decrease. So why ring ur mexes, instead of just building them somewhere else/safer? I see alot of people making these rings...

Statistics: Posted by StormLantern — 14 May 2019, 11:46