Forged Alliance Forever

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-07-26T13:49:21+02:00

I am not sure such a lengty reply is neccesary or the most straightforward way fo deal with the poor child.

Back to the thread topic ,I dont see why the current balance is not the most optimal,it barely gives an advantage to those that prepared for the ctrlk method ,with the wasted apm and builpower(which costs mass!).Its pretty much what every other areas of the game look like ,everything functions better with proper micro ,units economy and alike.
Why remove all options to perfect your gameplay, justso that the guy thats lazy(me,for example) has the same chances of winning as someone that actually puts effort into all aspect of their game? Do we really need to take away someone's advantage over us just so we can enjoy what we are capable of?At that point,why dont we just watch AI do everything in our preset scenairos?Or just gamble?

Edit: I'm sure if Feather was unbanned and his wisdom widespread ,noone would be so uninformed to post such questions.

Statistics: Posted by Lape — 26 Jul 2019, 13:49

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-07-25T21:06:31+02:00

Vineboy, why are you discussing the x2 resources mod at all? As far as I know, basically none of the people who are serious about this game play serious matches with x2 on. And even if some of them do, nobody has serious discussions in the forums about how the x2 mod changes their strategic choices.

If people actually played serious games with x2 resources on, there would be an entire meta established regarding how to play the game differently under that circumstance, and it would make sense to discuss it in depth on the forums.

On the strategy forum people may ask questions about economy, such as: "when to upgrade a t2 mex to t3" or "when do I start making RAS SACUs" or "should I put 4 massfabs or 8 mass fabs around a T3 mex?" But we don't have parallel discussions for "with the x2 mod on, when do I upgrade t2 mex to t3" or "if I'm playing with x5 resources, how soon should I start making RAS SACUs?" That's just not something that basically anyone (except for you i guess) is interested in discussing on the forums.

Those of us who take the time to do the math are not interested in re-doing all of our calculations for the x2 mod, and the x5 mod, etc. Even if it would only take 2-3 minutes. I spent more time writing this entry than it would take for me to re-do the math and give you a solid answer about when to ctrl-k T2 mexes with the x2 resources mod on. You are welcome to do the calculations yourself and you are welcome to share what you find here on the forum. I don't think anyone will care but we won't be annoyed that you are sharing information. What is a little annoying is asking us to do the calculations for something that we don't care about.

Statistics: Posted by armacham01 — 25 Jul 2019, 21:06

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-07-25T08:23:15+02:00

it true go in a x2 mod game and test it out

Statistics: Posted by vineboy2004 — 25 Jul 2019, 08:23

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-07-05T22:11:11+02:00

vineboy2004 wrote:
12-18 with x2 resources mod on

What?

Statistics: Posted by UnorthodoxBox — 05 Jul 2019, 22:11

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-07-05T10:56:09+02:00

12-18 with x2 resources mod on

Statistics: Posted by vineboy2004 — 05 Jul 2019, 10:56

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-07-05T10:55:46+02:00

12-18 with x2 resources mod on

Statistics: Posted by vineboy2004 — 05 Jul 2019, 10:55

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-27T16:31:05+02:00

Already discussed on the balance fourm

This is unintuitive, APM Heavy and unexciting gameplay, saving ~ 600 mass to invest into more eco instantly is a huge deal. Having a t3 acu and a few t1 engineers makes this always a good idea.

/viewtopic. ... 0&start=20

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 27 May 2019, 16:31

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-19T05:54:11+02:00

I agree with keyser, no reason to make any changes to this as it has basically 0 impact on the game, and making t3 mex cheaper would just make eco even more powerful.

Statistics: Posted by UnorthodoxBox — 19 May 2019, 05:54

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-19T01:40:27+02:00

you don't want to make T3 mexx cheaper.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 19 May 2019, 01:40

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-19T00:56:32+02:00

Might be worth simplifying this whole shebang by making the upgrade cheaper than the new build (Effectively take the existing T2 mex into account properly, like other upgrades do)

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 19 May 2019, 00:56

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-18T18:54:38+02:00

But if you can get it up sooner, Method 3 comes out ahead.

The issue with this is you need like 2 t3 engineers and 20 t1 to complete the mex in a reasonable time

Statistics: Posted by UnorthodoxBox — 18 May 2019, 18:54

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-14T01:45:06+02:00

The gain is usually offset by the cost of early overbuilding of buildpower

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 14 May 2019, 01:45

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-14T01:14:19+02:00

It's not strictly better or strictly worse. There are tradeoffs.

Method 1: tell the mex to upgrade itself. The mex will contribute build power to the upgrade (so you don't need any engineers) and while it is upgrading, you will continue to get 6 mass per second (9, if it's storaged).

Method 2: tell the mex to upgrade itself, plus assist it. The mex will contribute build power to the upgrade, plus you can have engies assisting it. You will continue to get 6 mass per second (9 if it's storaged) while it upgrades. The upgrade will cost the same amount as for Method 1, but it will finish faster (assuming you are not stalling on mass or power) because of the assistance. This is good because while the mex is upgrading, you're paying for the upgrade but you don't get any benefit (increased mass per second and increased HP) while the upgrade goes on.

Method 3: ctrl-k the mex, then build a new T3 mex on top of it. This requires a T3 engineer. This is not even an option unless you have a T3 engineer (or ACU with T3, or a SACU). You don't get any mass while the mex is under construction, and the mex itself (because it is dead) does not contribute any build power to getting the T3 mex completed faster. The only advantage is that you get to scoop about 700 mass from the dead T2 mex, before you start building the T3.

700 mass divided by 9 mass per second, means that if you finish building the mex within 78 seconds of when the t2 mex died, you basically broke even (you wasted your time doing this more complicated thing). But if you can get it up sooner, Method 3 comes out ahead. If you can build the mex in just 20 seconds, then you are losing out on 180 mass (that the t2 mex would have generated while it was upgrading itself) but you get 700 mass (from scooping the wreck) so you are about 520 mass ahead of where you would be under method 2.

520 mass is not a tiny amount, but it is also not world-shattering. It is a bit more than a corsair wreck. It's half of a percy wreck. It is the cost of 10 T1 tanks.

Method 3 is considered tryharding because it is an elaborate thing that takes your time and attention away, when you could probably be doing other things.

Your most precious resources are mass, energy, and attention. Just as you want to have more mass and more energy, you want to have more attention. You can't create attention, you can only avoid spending it the wrong way. Depending on your situation, it is very likely that zooming out, looking at the map, moving your units around, watching a scout plane fly over the enemy positions, etc. is more valuable to your success than saving 500 mass while you upgrade mexes. I've actually never used Method 3 in a ladder match and I don't expect to do so any time soon.

So if you're playing Seton's, and you're in a phase of the game where the air player doesn't have a lot to do, or if you're on a "gap" or "craters" map, then 100% it can make sense to engage in this bit of tryharding. But in other contexts, it's usually just not worth it.

Statistics: Posted by armacham01 — 14 May 2019, 01:14

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-12T22:44:51+02:00

Most people that do it, do it wrong. It is usually a bad idea to do unless you have over 200 buildpower on the mex and will not mass or energy stall at all.

Statistics: Posted by UnorthodoxBox — 12 May 2019, 22:44

Re: upgrading t2 mex to t3 mex

2019-05-12T22:14:39+02:00

Cost of building a t3 mex with a t3 engie - 4600
Cost of upgrading a t2 mex to t3 - 4600
Reclaim of t2 mex - around 730
However the t2 mex continues to produce the 6-9 mass per second as it upgrades so you need to finish the upgrade within a set amount of time for it to be the optimal use of mass.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 12 May 2019, 22:14